Saw both buses on Queens Blvd yesterday at 5:45 PM the paint job on 909 is sharper. The side windows are all in white trim rather than black as on 922. Why isn't there consistency in the paint among the same series of buses?
904-905, 910, 912, 915, 918, 926, 928, 939, 941, 946-947 are the same way as 909. 901, 906, 911, 940, 948-954 are like 922.
930 see the pics on my site, looks weird:
www.angelfire.com/ny/kaybeespage/MCIMAN2000DOTPICS2.html
There are a total of 4 pics.
MM2000
Today I was shifting in the yard at Ulmer Park and saw 3160 turned backward in the yard. I went into the bus and saw that the Farebox, the base the the FB and th radio was removed. There also was some seet removed. I asked the forman and he sad it is being scraped. SO 3160 RIP. it was one of the best busses in Ulmer Park.
P.S. yesterday I pick into Jackie Glenson. I will be working on the B16 Thursday thue Monday. So in two I will be called robertm@Jackie_Glenson.
She was a fine bus! She will be missed. I sure am glad I got to ride with her on the B82 last summer. This unit should definitely get placed in to the Museum fleet if you ask me. Just a thought. Once again RIP 3160 you will be missed.
Peace
DaShawn
If 3133 was retired, I figured that 3160 would be too. It was unfortunate that I couldn't get a pic of this bus b4 its retirement.
RIP 3160!
MM2000
as of two weeks ago this bus was in ulmer park backyard out of service. it may still be there if you hurry.
there should be more buses on the lines of please put the new buses up and running
Which lines? Could you be more specific?
B46M Limited
I know that MCIs and some intercity buses use a ether start system in cold days to help the engine fire up. How about city buses? Do they use the same thing? Do they have combustion heaters that heat the engine coolent? Van Hools have that? What do they use if the pistons can't raise the air temp high enought to ignite the fuel?
There's always the can of ether you can buy at Pep Boys! It doesn't take much compression to make the stuff ignite, and boy, does it STINK when it comes out the tailpipe!
I have used ether to start MCI buses, by spraying it in the air intakes and cranking the bus from the rear in temperatures down to Minus 11 (on a ski trip in Salt Lake City). Should have just left the bus running, but it wasn't that bad the night before when I went to bed at the hotel, only 6 dergees above. But we always carried a can of ether or two "just in case".
I've also heard some other uses for that ether in a spray can, some rather kiny uses.....at least from what a fromer girlfriend who was a nurse said.....
When will QSC discontinue service on the QBX1 and the TA start opearting the replacement Q 50 service and why is this being done?
Also will Command give up the B 100 and let the TA opearte the B 2 to Mill Basin?
You mean QSC is really giving up the QBX1??? Oh well - so much for the fun rides between Co-Op City/Pelham Bay and Flushing.
Wayne
GIVE UP THE QBX1??!! WHY??
That bus in a really good deal. Goes from flushing over the Whitestone bridge to Co-op city. Runs express in the bronx. Goes around co-op city and back to Pelham Bay station. Can't figure out why they want to give it up. I know of lots of complains.
Is this confirmed???
Steve
I read some article in Daily News last February or March saying that MTA want to take over QBX1 because of People that live at Co-op travel to & coming from Queens. I see some QBX1 buses & alot of passergers on the bus. Do you know why?? It about $$$$$. I don't know when MTA taking over QBX1 & becoming Q50 also i don't know which Depot will handled Q50.
Peace Out
Meaney
It could happend after Janurary,Thatis when the contracts expire if the city doesn't give the DOT another extension like it has for the past decade.I for one would like seeing the city operate the Q11 or Q60 instead of GBL
Most QBx1 buses operate only between Co-op city and the Pelham Bay Park subway station. Meanwhile, there is a load of ridership between Quenns and the Bronx. If anything, the TA will expand service on that route between Queens and the Bronx.
I wonder if the TA get this route, the Q44 will be limited through the Bx as well.......
B46M Limited
I whish they would take over the Q22 from the Green Bus Lines.
If it turns out to be true - it may be because of the Pehlam Bay to Flushing portion of the route. I'm sure Thurston can shed some light on this, but the QBX1 carries most of its passengers between Co-Op City and Pelham Bay. Very few ride between Pelham Bay and Flushing which is probably why there are at least 2 Co-Op City/Pelham Bay buses for every one Co-Op City/Flushing Bus.
Wayne
1. I do not know if QSC is giving up the Qbx1? I think that was just a posting from FDNY.
2. I never thought of the B2/B100 combo. That would be a good one. But I think most of the passengers on the B2 goes to KP and probably complain if they have to get off and change to the B9 or B41 for a short distance....
B46M Limited
I've always wished for a bus that would combine the 2. Run like the B2 to KP, then go up Avenue U into Mill Basin like the 100. At the very least, I think that the B100 should stop doing idiotic things like routing westbound busses into KH station via KH itself. They should run via Quentin and the eastbound busses via Avenue R. The busses don't make any stops along the KH stretch and I believe it's the slowest average part of the bus route.
I doubt Command will give up the B100. Command is expected to start getting its new Orion CNG hard seaters in the next few weeks; to be used on the B100. The route is contacted for by Command anyway. I do not know when the contract expires.
Over a year ago. It's part of the DOT franchise system, which has been resisting legislated change for nearly 3 years. Expect all the DOT routes to go for bid within the next 6 months.
-Hank
Hi Folks, Exactly when will the MTA take over ALL the private company routes? Will this happen at all? I woulndt mind seeing the Q12 going all the way down to 21st. Or seeing the Q11 and the Q60 with MTA buses on those lines in the near future. If anyone knows please post thank you.
It won't happen unless there is a lengthy strike, if it happens at all.
-Hank
Hi guys I'm back. Did my annual AAA baseball twi-nighter this year in Scranton, PA. Also rode an old steamer & visited the SUBWAY, it's a coal mine tour, also went to Atlantic City where I lost money in four Casinos & went "back home" to help out at a country fair where I saw many of my cousins .... but then that's not what this tread is about.
- Re: QBX-1, my source said "no truth whatsoever" to the TA picking up this route. I realy dought the TA would want to pick up pieces of the service that NYC-DOT & the "privates" provide.
- Re: Contract/franchise ... the TA isn't involved in this eather. The City, thru DOT is re-bidding the franchises at the end of this year. When Rudy took office he had plans to make a lot of changes in DOT, but got distracted on other matters & discovered that the magnificant seven aren't doing such a bad job. Are they realy going to re-bid these franchises this time ? They might. If they do they'll have to deal with the TWU that will want to keep their existing salaries and benifits, and some of the companies own the depot buildings. These are just two of the items that DOT would have to work out. Meanwhile the current owners will be sharping their pencils. And even if it ends up being the same old seven the public still gets a benifit why, ... because we try harder !
Disclaimer: I am not a official spokesman of NYC-DOT or Queens Surface Corp. ... I'm a subway buff who happens to work for a bus company.
Mr t__:^)
forgive me..message long
while riding to work this morning on the X29, i was talking to a driver named "5 borough Phil". he gave me good gossip. please let me know if these information is ture or not.
1. new system pick again in janurary,x27 returns to ulmer park.
2-ulmer park had a choice: lost B1 and B4 or lose the X27.
3-2 new garages are being planned. one in maspeth, the other in long island city.
if anybody knows any truth to these questions,let me know.
thanks
1. Unlikely...space problems at Ulmer Park won't be solved by January.
2. The choice was made by the Brooklyn Division.
3. Both sites are being looked at; if anything happens, it'll be one or the other (or maybe a choice not listed/not known at this time), not both.
David
[forgive me..message long
while riding to work this morning on the X29, i was talking to a driver named "5 borough Phil". he gave me good gossip. please let me know if these information is ture or not.
1. new system pick again in janurary,x27 returns to ulmer park.
2-ulmer park had a choice: lost B1 and B4 or lose the X27.
3-2 new garages are being planned. one in maspeth, the other in long island city.
if anybody knows any truth to these questions,let me know.
thanks]
Neither Maspeth or LIC are really TA Bus territory, so would these garages be for the DOT? Crosstown is what they need to reopen in that area.
I was wondering semitrucks can jacknife if their drive axle on the tractor locks up. Can this happen on articulated buses? On the flyers?
On the Hampton Jitney Prevost buses? The engine on these buses are in the middle and the drive axle is in the center.
It can happen on articulateds but they have an anti-jack knife assembly built into the articulated section of the bus so this is not a very common occurrence (at least on the M-A-N and GMD articulateds which is all I know about).
RDChilds
All artics (i.e. MAN, Volvo, New Flyer, NABI (Ikarus), Neoplan, NovaBUS, and GMC) all have the Anti-Jackknifing Feature!
Trevor
Updated Sites at TransiTALK
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Check it out!
Trevor
Hi to all; Now that things are back to normal(?) train service over the Willy B, when does the B39 resume collecting fares?
I know that this topic has been loosly discussed before, but I'm still wondering.
The numbering system for RTS buses delivered between 1981 and 1987 is pretty consistent and consecutive (but why did they start at 1201 instead of 1000?).
Then in 1990, the numbers suddenly shot up to 8000 and were numbered upwards of 8000 until 1997.
Then, the latest RTS fleet picks up at 4900 -- where the 1990 fleet should have.
Why did the TA jump from 4899 to 8000 in 1990, instead of keeping the numbers consistent?
And with the MCI's -- why start at 1860 instead of 2000?
It would've made since for the 1981 NYCTA RTS to start at 1000 (and MABSTOA's at 2000 instead of 2201). After TMC RTS (4600-4899) it was necessary to skip some numbers for the 1990 TMC's or renumber Blitz rebuilds which were numbered in the 5000 - 5500 series. In the late 80's there were still some GMC Fishbowls and Flxibles that had been renumbered in to the 6500/6600 and 7200-7400 series. They were originally numbered 4000-4202 (TA), 4600-4727 (OA)(Flxible) and 4800-4919 (GMC) and were renumbered to make way for the 1986 GMC RTS (PA4300-4599) and 1987 TMC RTS (4600-4899).
Wayne
The Jump happened because in 1990 there was still a decent amount of GMC New Look (Fishbowl) buses running around with the 5000 series numbers on them! So until the got rid of them, the jumped to the next available number, the 8000! Also they couldn't use the 7000 because of the Flxible's still running with those numbers too! Which brings us to the 6000 which there was no excuse for skipping but they did!
Know they are going to fill up all of the numbers that have been discontinued on other models (i.e. 4900-5249 RTS, 5250-5509 New Flyer Artics, 6000-6349 Orion V, 6350-6359 Hybrid Electrics). the 9700 series will kick off the NovaBUS RTS Hybrid Order!
I Hope this has helped you!
Trevor Logan
aka MTA Boy
TransiTALK
[Which brings us to the 6000 which there was no excuse for skipping but they did!]
There were still unrebuilt 6000 fishbowls at that time, too.
Weren't some of the Grummans 1100's? I thought that was why they started at 1201
No the 6000 fishbowls (and the 5000 fishbowls) were all Blitz rebuilds, and ended their days, as most pre-80s equipment, on Staten Island routes. The 5000s and 6000s lasted until 1993, when the first of the Orions arrived. The 7000 and 9000 series unrebuilt Flxibles went in 1990, when the 8000 seies RTS arrived.
-Hank
No, the 6000's weren't Blitz (only the 5000), and as the 8000's atarted attiving in 1990, they did overlap, so the 6000 series was not yet free.
If I am not mistaken Hank is correct some of the 6000 series GM's did become 5000 series Blitz rebuilds. Now of course not all of the 6000's became rebuilds by blitz but some of them. Alot of the 55xx series and 51xx series Blitz express buses ended their carrers in Manhattan out Mother Hale and Hudson Pier. I enjoyed the 55xx series on the M14's when getting out of school. To my surprise they held up pretty well.
Peace
DaShawn
Perhaps you're thinking about the few 6900's that had the roof AC unit. Though I didn't think to look for a Blitz plate, I think that was another retrofit program. anything that was Blitzed was renumbered as a 5000. That's what that series signified.
(someone once told me that one of the buses sent to Blitz was a Flxible, and they refused it. Does anyone else know of this?
Interesting! Because when you look at any advertisement from Blitz in the trade magazines they claim that they can remanufacture any bus. The 9000 series Flxibles were excellent in both performance and apperance. They were really dependable also, the AC wasn't always great in the summer but they were still a great bus to me.
Peace
DaShawn
I'd guess Blitz means it can remanufacture any KIND of bus. Some individual vehicles may simply be beyond saving. Moreover, it could have been a situation where the bus was rebuildable, but rebuilding would have been so expensive that it just wasn't worth doing.
You also have to remember that in 1984, when the contract was signed with Blitz, those 9000-series buses were only 6-7 years old (delivered 1977-78). They weren't yet old enough to warrant a complete rebuilding. NYCT did a partial rebuilding on those buses in 1985 (maybe into 1986), including replacing the flooring. Repairs to air conditioning on all pre-Grumman buses except those in express service stopped after the summer of 1983, as attention turned first to keeping the Grummans in service and then to keeping the buses rescued from the scrap heap to replace the Grummans going.
David
[Interesting! Because when you look at any advertisement from Blitz in the trade magazines they claim that they can remanufacture any bus. The 9000 series Flxibles were excellent in both performance and apperance. They were really dependable also, the AC wasn't always great in the summer but they were still a great bus to me.]
What I heard, was that Blitz said it only did GM's. But since you're David, you know about the person I used to get all these rumors from.
Yup, I sure do know who you mean. The original plan was to rebuild some Flxible "New Looks" (probably the 1969-70 111-CC-D51s {4000/4600 series}) as well as GMs. I never did find out why no Flxibles got rebuilt.
David
[What I heard, was that Blitz said it only did GM's. But since you're David, you know about the person I used to get all these rumors from.]
Weren't some of the Grummans 1100's? I thought that was why they started at 1201 ]
The NYCTA had some second-hand suburban fishbowls from MSBA during the 1980's. The were used in SI express routes and were numbered in the 011XX series. i Don't know why they used the (MBTA style) zero.
Wayne
If memory serves me, when the initial batch of RTS's arrived, the TA still had some of the 1961 fishbowls (1001-1130) and 1962 fishbowls (2001-2175) running. That is why the TA buses started at 1201 and the Mabstoa buses started at 2201.
Sid is Correct!
Trevor
As most TA buses seem to reach 20 years of age, I don't find this difficult to believe at all. The late 60s/early 70s fishbowls and Flxibles lasted until the early 90s, and we've got unrebuilt 1981 RTS still running in service. I won't be surprised to see the current buses running 20 years from now, either. In fact, because of the differences in the way they are built, and the improvements in maintainance quality, they could last 25 or more.
-Hank
The MCIs start at 1860 because it is well above the last of the 1981 TA RTS, and in ends just below (with the options being exercised for an additional 100, 50 confirmed) just below the 2200 series used on the 1981 OA RTS. The 1000s and 1100s are taken by the 1997/98 New Flyer D60s, the 100-700 taken by the Orions, 800-999 by the New Flyer C40LFs (and test buses). Pretty much from 2201 up to 5249, and 8000 up to 9700 are RTS. Mid-1800s to mid 2000s are the new MCIs (with the options, to 2100) The first batches of RTS run from 1201 through the 1858. The 1999/2000 New Flyers will go in the 5250-5500 slot, and the 1999 Orions cover 6000 and up. Not much space left, as the rebuild 1981/82s use the 7000/7500 series.
All the large blocks that are left are 9700 to 9999, 5500 to 5999, and 6400 to 6999. The TA has nearly (est)8000 buses!
-Hank
Now its 100 MCIs confirmed! Found out more than a month ago by The TA brass! the 9700 series will be swallowed up Nova Hybrid RTSs, the first 5 due years end! 5500-5999 will continue off as New Flyers, the 140 option will go from 5510-5649 and so on! The option hasn't taken yet but will mostly be taken for the Flatbush Artic order. NYCT will continue the 6000s as Orion Numbers. And on the Older orions thats 101-681, 700 is now where near being touched! 990-999 will be used as demostration bus numbers, 995 being the LFS, and 996-998 used as the New Flyer Viking numbers!!
I don't know if it's been covered, but I've seen the route number changes on Staten Island assailed as 'dumb' on this forum, so what do you think of the mass renumbering they did in Manhattan some years ago?
-Hank
One aspect of the renumbering in Manhattan was very smart - using crosstown street names as route numbers, e.g., M8, M14, M23, M34, M42, M50, M57, M66, M72, M79, M86, M96, M106 and M116. A few of these existed before the renumbering, such as M14, but most of them were new with the renumbering.
Hey sid your right, I remeber when the current M8 was the M13 and the M8 was actually the Grand Street Crosstown. Thanks for the post, it brings back great memories of "Fishbowls" and first generation RTS's.
Peace
DaShawn
When was this done? What were the old routes? Did Brooklyn, Queens or The Bronx get renumberings in the past?
The Bronx routes were drastically renumbered some years ago. Not being a resident, frequent rider or operator there, I'm still more familiar with the old numbering. While I can understand the reason for the Manhattan renumbering, e.g., M17 to M79, changing route numbers in the Bronx still has me confused, e.g., Bx34 to Bx6.
I recollect a more modest renumbering was done in Queens many years back, but I believe the main goal there was to eliminate route numbers with A and VP. Thus, the Q-12A became the Q-79, the Q-17A became the Q-30, the Q-44A became the Q-46, the Q-44VP became the Q-74, Q-3A became the Q-83, Q-4A became the Q-84, and the Q-5A became the Q-85. That's why I'm a little surprised the TA recently started the Q-20A and Q-20B, althought the reason for doing it makes sense since those two routes are nearly identical except for a small portion at the northerly end. And some of the privates have continued route numbers with A or B in them for many years.
The ironic thing thing is the Q20 was the old Q44FS. Now it is back to an A and B.
According to a TA driver out of CS, routes with codas like FS, VP, A, B, etc. were changed to straight number designations because the public was too stupid (his words, not mine) to understand the differences. This must mean (to me) that riders of Queens Transit routes should be entered for MENSA membership.
What is also interesting it that these letters are used on the M14 crosstown since the line runs down 3 different avenues and has 2 different eastern terminals. The M14A runs via Ave A and ends at Grand Street & FDR Drive and the M14C via Ave C and M14D via Ave D ends at Delancy Street N & Columbia Street. Strikes me strange that the M14C/D has not ended at Delancy & FDR in years. Will this ever change?
Peace
DaShawn
That A, C, or D only appears on the rear route sign, not on the front or side signs (Which display the route and destination). My guess is so you don't run after the wrong bus.
-Hank
You can tell from the front and side signs whether the bus is going via Avenue A, C or D. The only way to tell on the rear sign is to use the route number as 14A, 14C or 14D.
My thought as well Hank.
Peace
DaShawn
As far as I know, I am the only person who has wondered why the 14C/D has an incorrect eastbound destination sign. If I see my location chief today, I'll ask him. I'm told that it is the location chief that decides the wording of signs. My "favorite" sign is for the Queensbound Q32. In the fifteen or so years I've driven the route, no one has ever quite got the message across with the sign in use. My suggestion, which was rejected, was "Q32 to QUEENS, via 59 ST BRIDGE, JACKSON HTS 81 ST." I still like "my" sign best.
In the NY Times Friday September 3, page B1, A Field Guide To NYC Buses. Their is also a story that goes with a Field Guide to NYC Buses called Fleet Diversity: Different City Buses For Different Routes on Page B3 of the NY Times Friday September 3.
After the good people of BusTalk reads the article on B1 and B3 NY Times Friday Sept. 3, your most excellent thoughts are most welcome.
Charlie Muller of Bedford Park Blvd. Home of the Bronx #1 and #2 Grand Concourse line and Bronx #26 Co-Op City Bus.
Great article with that field guide (except omitting the fact that the Nova Low Floor operates in Queens when its on the 32).That picture of the Hybrid Orion Low Floor is interesting .Kind of strange seeing an Orion with a RTS Stop Requested Sign in front(but not as weird as 3313 with its Blitz Stop Requested sign.
The "Stop Requested" signs are not indigenous to any one brand of bus. They are an "aftermarket" item, or option, that is ordered as an accessory when the buses are ordered.
So, you might see the same exact type of sign in any manufacturer's buses.
That maybe true, but I can understand what is being said about 3313. When new 3313 had the Original "Stop Requested" signs like all other buses alot of those units went to ABC bus for a Mid Life rebuild when they came back with the "Blitz" type "Stop Requested" signs. The Orion "Stop Requested" signs are interesting and is suprising to see the Hybrid Orions with the "Standard" so to speak Stop Requested sign.
Peace
DaShawn
What license does it take to drive a city bus? A NY state commercial
drivers lincense of what type? Class B? Class A is for semi trucks.
I don't know the letter, but under the old classification it used to be a class 2.
Wayne
Class B with a P (passenger endorsment). You must also pass the air brakes section.
Class B with Passenger Endorsement
Don't forget it must also be a CDL.
You need a CDL Class B license, with P (passenger) endorsement. In addition, you need to take the air brake portion of the written test. If you don't take it (or don't pass it) you are restricted to "No Air Brakes" on your CDL.
On my trip back to NYC form Boston, I rode on a Greyhound bus.
The driver must have weighted at least 500 pounds. My question: Is there any programs that companies sponsor to help their drivers keep fit?
It is dangerous for the driver and the passengers.
I noticed many overweight drivers on intercity buses.
Heh, you should see the COWS where I drive out here in southern California!!! Heaven only knows how they get between the seat and the steering wheel. (Of course, we have one gal who is about 98 pounds dripping wet, we all kid her about putting blocks on the pedals so her feet can reach 'em!!)
I have trouble getting comfortable in RTS's, and I'm 5'9" and 200 pounds. I don't know how the "hefties" do it.....but they always have a black streak across their gut when they get out of the bus, from the steering wheel!
Yes, I have the black stripe. As for obesity, if the operator cannot fit behind the wheel, he/she will be disqualified. (This has happened several times.) However, obesity is considered by the NYCTA to be a "peripheral" problem and is not covered by the health benefits package. The NYCTA has never been an advocate of preventative health treatment. In the case of obesity, which is a common cause of heart problems, for example, NYCTA waits for those problems to arise and then treats them.
Prior to power steeing on buses at least the drivers arms and upper body were in shape, acentuating the belly. With manual transmissions on intercity and suburban buses the left leg was in shape. Now it's a soft job all over.
Why don't you try driving a bus down Fifth Avenue during rush hour or better still during the holiday season with all the tourists driving like morons to look at a Christmas tree that looks the same every year.
When the New York World's Fair closed in 1965, Triboro Coach acquired a number of two door transits from Greyhound (these became Triboro's first a/c buses).
Greyhound operated these fishbowls as well as a small fleet of single door, sightseeing buses (with roof top windows) at the Fair.
Queens Transit had at least one of these buses.
What became of them?
When did Triboro get rid of them?
What became of the 35' Flxible buses that Avenue B and East Broadway (#s 601-605) acquired in 1965?
For that matter what happened to their GM fishbowls?
All scrapped?
Another what became of -What ever happend to the AM Generals that Steinway had in the early 80's
Razor Blades.
-Hank
One thing I have found over the years, you would be surprised at how many used transit buses from USA wind up in third-world countries, especially Central/South America. Heaven only knows how they keep them running.
I saw pictures recently taken in Cuba, lo and behold, there was a GM fishbowl in the background of one of the pictures. It was red and yellow, maybe that's where one of the old Ave. B & East Broadway units went (though, red and yellow was a very common combination, and maybe even the Cuban operator painted it this way...)
I also saw a picture from Buenos Aires, Argentina -- and what was in this picture but a Grumman 870!! I have production lists for Flxible, and NONE were ever built for Buenos Aires, so I feel safe in guessing it came from up here somewhere.
The agency where I drive (Orange County TA in southern California) recently sold off some 1980 RTS's. Five of them were driven to Long Beach (CA) harbor and put on a ship -- going to AFRICA!!
(Speaking of Africa, there WERE 300 (yes, THREE HUNDRED) AM Generals built for the Nigerian Armed Forces back in the 1970's according to AMG production records. Maybe they just needed objects for target practice, I dunno!)
They probably did wind up in Third World countries! The maintance on the Ave. B fishbowls was attrocious. I would see and hear them every day as I worked in a Chemical Bank branch on E 14 St. from 5/73 till 10/79 when I came to work for the TA.
There's an oil company here in College Point that has 3 new RTS coaches ... to pick up customers that run out of oil ????
Mr t__:^)
I was very intrested in the front page article of the "Field Guide to New York City Buses" They made two mistakes! I called them and said that Orion 5's do not run in brooklyn, only CNG which is a type of Orion and they already had a profile on the CNG orion. The other thing I catched was that the Low Floor Hybrid doesn't run in Queens!!! Pick up todays New York Times and look at the metro section. You'll see what I mean.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Sorry, but the New York Times was right. Orion 5's, powered by CNG, DO run in Brooklyn out of Jackie Gleason depot. The bus profiled was the New Flyer low floor that is currently being delivered. Also, the hybrids do run in Queens on the Q32.
Sorry, but the New York Times is partialy correct as well as you. The hybrids do not run on the Q32! The NovaBus LFS is a straight diesel low floor bus. This bus sometimes runs on the Q32 and some of the other routes out of Hudson Pier depot. The Hybrids are all running out of Manhattanvlle on the following routes: M2, M3, M4, M5/M5Limited, M60.
Peace
DaShawn
oookkk, sorry bout that
Peace Out
-Clayton
Nothing to be sorry about! We all make mistakes.
Peace!
DaShawn
Since the M60 goes to LaGuardia Airport, the Orion VI hybrids DO operate in Queens.
David
[Sorry, but the New York Times is partialy correct as well as you. The hybrids do not run on the Q32! The NovaBus LFS is a straight diesel low floor bus. This bus sometimes runs on the Q32 and some of the other routes out of Hudson Pier depot. The Hybrids are all running out of Manhattanvlle on the following routes: M2, M3, M4, M5/M5Limited, M60]
Correct but not on the Q32. Most people think that the Nova LFS is a hybrid and it is not. Even some of the drivers have been telling passengers that this bus is a Hybrid and it is not. The post I was responding to stated that the hybrids are on the Q32 and that is not correct, but your response is correct since the hybrid Orion VI's do operate to queens via the M60 to LaGuardia Airport.
Peace
DaShawn
Oh crap! I hope the guy verifies my noticing before putting it in the corrections part of the paper. They must have a really good transit reporter to realize that the M60 runs hybrids to Queens.
If he is as a good of a reporter as he is supposed to be, he will notice. And also he can double check that information from you with the source he has at the MTA just to really make sure.
Peace
DaShawn
After Pioneer Bus discontinued operations in the Spring of 1979 and before Command Bus was started in the fall of that year the TA extended the B-2 from Kings Plaza to the B-100 terminal in Mill Basin via Avenue U and E.66th Street.
If the routes are consolidated the B-100 route will be discontinued and the B-2 will again be extended from Kings Plaza to Mill Basin via Ave U and E. 66th St.
The only area which will not have service nearby will be Fillmore Ave between Utica Ave and E. 56th Street.
By the way at one time the B-100 was not allowed to pick up passengers between E. 16th St and Utica Avenue
The B2 used to go to Mill Basin!!!! What streets did it run on?
B46M Limited
it used to go this way:
ave u to 66th st
66th st to national drive
national drive to strickland av
strickland av to 56th srive
56th drive to national drive
to 66th st-to ave u
Same as the B100 apparently.
What's the story behind Pioneer Bus? What's the story behind Varsity for that matter?
pioneer bus used to be command. their garage was located at the end of the B-100 and BM1 route on strickland avenue. When Pioneer went out of business, B2 was running into mill basin. a short time later(i'm not sure of the date), the company was taken over by Command Bus,which had a garage at 626 wortman avenue. The garage was moved earlier this year. if anyone knows of the date pioneer went out,let me know.
Hmm, where was the garage on Strickland Avenue, is it the one that now houses school busses (aka shit busses) between 56 Drive and East 57 Place?
Saw this bus on Q32 yesterday. It's back from it's accident with the garbage truck
www.angelfire.com/ny3/kaybee/images/Ta8492.jpg
MM2000
Yes, the damage was cosmetic and repaired quickly.
Today I had some stuff I need to do in NYC so I take the PATH from Newark into WTC, do what I need to do there. Then I take the 6 train uptown to 23rd St. Do what I need to do there. All along the way, I was stopping at subway stations and asking the clerks if they had Manhattan Bus Maps. And guess what. Nope. I stopped a couple of buses from my walk from the WTC to Canal and B'Way and guess what they didn't have any maps. You know, if you are running a transit agency, you have to keep the public aware of what service they can get. I give the MTA a thumbs up for those guide-ride things at each stop, but how do I know where to get the bus I need, to look at the guide-rides with out a map? Yes I figured out that I needed the m23 to get back to Sixth Ave. to get the PATH, common sence told me that, but what if I wanted to get all the way up town to 96th and West End? I am not familar with NYC Bus routes? I think the MTA needs to fully stock each station with bus maps. Yes, most of the subway stations I went to had copies of The Map (Subway), and I commend them on that. But what happens when a tourist comes, who can't speek English needs to get some where? Who's gonna help them then? At least with the maps, it's all drawn out for them
Ari
I haven't been to the city in several months (with an exception or two), but earlier in the year my experience was somewhat the opposite - many of the city buses I rode in Manhattan did have Bus Maps available. Perhaps there is a current shortage. Probably the most reliable places to get them are the Transit Museum Shops located in Grand Central and near Times Square. It's pretty rare for a token booth to have a Bus Map, and that should probably be corrected.
Not really. My home stations in Bklyn have bus maps.........
B46M Limited
I also stopped at the field supervisers and emergency responce trucks, and they didn't have any either. Now, they, should have at least one for their information. NJT's field supervisors all have scheduals, maps, rosters, etc.
Ari
PS Note the new email address.
Did you notice that most, if not all, stations have subway, bus and neighborhood maps, and often schedules and always reroute information posted on the wall?
Actully, no, I didn't lingure in the stations. The smell was starting to get to me ;-).
Borough bus maps are distributed to drivers once, sometimes twice a week. Each driver gets about five maps. They disappear quickly. (Tourists usually make use of the maps in their guide books.) There is a map posted on every bus. If this is not good enough, you can always ask the driver for directions. For long range plans, request maps from NYCTA at 270 Jay St., Brooklyn, N.Y.
Correction: 370 Jay St, Brooklyn,NY 11201. 718-330-1234
B46M Limited
Read MTA.NYC.NY.US
New material
Steve
Looks Bx service is improving.......
B46M Limited
Can someone clear up as to whether or not the NYCTA ever used VS-2 transmissions? I remember bus no. 8922, a GMC 5305 had a three speed auto when I rode in it back in '72. All records and production lists say that NYC only ordered buses with the VH transmission, so this may have been unique to this bus.
Some were delivered with what was known as a VS-9, which from what I was told by maintenance personnel where I drove, is a two-speed version built into the casings of the VS-2 three-speed. It could be easily converted to three-speed by addition of a "splitter gear" whatever that is/does. (That's the terminology this maintenance person told me...)
I think you might mean the VH-9 transmission instead of the VS9. The splitter that was referred to makes the 2 speed into a 3 speed when used. You shed some light on a very hard to answer question.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Wasn't watching what I was typing.
Thanks for the correction!
The VH was the first hydralic shifting trans for GMC buses. The V drive used an external air shifter. The VH-9 is the updated version of the VH, with "9 internal improvements"
The VS case looks the same on the outside but uses different clutch packs that the VH series trans. The clutches are more like the 730 clutches.
The VS-2 is a VS that has a clutch and planetary grears on the input shaft that put the bus into overdrive. They drove well and gave you good road speed for express buses but when they came undone they made a mess inside. I saw one come appart one time with the main shaft in 3 pieces.
Most of the VS and VS2's shifted from forward to reverse with a toggle switch on the dash instead of the lever at the left side of the driver.
The VS-2's that I drove had 6v71's in 35 foot express buses (transit bodies, not suburbans). In overdrive they hit the governor at 72 mph.
Your experiences with the VS-2's sound exactly like what I have experienced.
I did run across some that did not have the toggle switch shifter, these were actually in some TDH5304's I drove at Riverside Transit Agency (CA) in 1977-1981. These were 1967 buses originally built for Greenville, South Carolina.
San Diego Transit also had some TDH4519's built in 1967 that had the three-speed VS-2 (6V71's also) that had the "stick shift" on the floor. Their TDH5303's were the same, as they were the last ones built in 1967.
Many agencies also got a three-button shifter (push buttons) that mounted on the top of the dash panel above the air speedometer. One such operation that comes to mind is the T8H5305's of San Francisco Municipal Railway. These were built in 1969-1970 and were built as "hill climbers". They were among the first transits with the 8V71 engine, different rear end gearing, VS-2 transmissions, direct drive cooling fans. They could fly out of a stop, but I believe their top speed was only 52 miles an hour (gearing for the hills precluded this) and oh boy, were they loud!! And to add to the "music" they also had Jake Brakes!!! I understand much of their loudness comes from the 8V71 engines being coupled to a small muffler that was installed with the 6V71's. (I never did check out Seattle's T8H5305's, but I understand they were identical to SF Muni's in every respect.)
I have noticed lately that more transit systems are purchasing buses with the Detroit Diesel Series 50 or 60G instead of the Cummins L10G that was the dominant engine of choice for CNG powered buses. Any reason for the switch. Is it a dependability issue, or perhaps a maintainance/cost of operation issue? Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Peace
DaShawn
The Cummins L10 was "supposed" to make the clean-air standards in the past few years, but somehow did NOT. All the buses at our agency that had them were re-engined with Cummins M11's at the expense of Cummins due to this fact. (All ours were straight diesel...)
Our maintenance department said that the M11 is basically an upgraded L10, with electronic controls/injection/etc. so perhaps the L10 is no longer being produced? I don't know. I will say that the M11 is a very strong engine, once the buses were re-engined with them, they flew! (Gillig Phantoms....however, not too safe to fly in them, as you never know what might shake loose and fall off!!!)
The Cummins L10G was discontinued when the Cummins ISC-CNG (C8.3G) Engine came into play, There is also a ISM-CNG (M-11G) engine in the works, while this change over was taking place a Cummins, DDC enter their Series 50G and Series 60G engine into the industry with much quickness! Cummins will bounce back as it is a more quieter and quicker engine as to the Series 50/50G! (i.e. Series 50/50G normally rates at a 275 Horsepower wherein the Cummins always tends to top out at 280 or 330 Horsepower).
Trevor
Interesting, I remeber when SunBus in Cochella Valley Calafornia had tested the Original Series 50G which was a unit that was converted from a diesel unit and adapted for Natural Gas. The same with NJT the cummins L10G were horrible along with PSE&G's poor quality CNG and at Hoboken Festival there was a Flxible Metro C with a Prototype Series 60G. The M11 are really nice but quite loud compared to a Series 50 and maybe about the same as a Series 60. Will we ever see any of our Transit buses with a series 60 for comparison to the M11's?
Peace
DaShawn
Never, the Series 60 is large in comparison with the Series 50, I think that was a series 50G at the Festival. The series 60G is a 11.1L engine (Perfect for the MCI D3 CNG NJT has!) but would blow the frame of the the Flxible due to its power! The M1x1 I have come in contact with were very quite except for those in NovaBUS RTS-06 #9140-9149, but that's not the engines fault, The M11 is NOT compatable with the Allison VR-731 Transmission, its Net Power input is too high for the Transmissions which results in some problems, one of which is the loud sound!
Trevor
Very interesting. That is what I said but when I saw this engine I knew it was kind of large for it to be a Series 50G so I looked around the engine compartment and indeed I was shocked and surprised that it was a Series 60G. The deal with this bus was the rear was redigned to look like the newest Flxible Metro D's, including the exhaust on the roof which was cromed out, just beautiful. This bus was one of the first units to be reintroduced in to service with the others to come. I think it was Hoboken Festival 95, I was parked right near the entrance to the path with the ramp. It caught everybodies attention. You could call it a show stopper! I wonder why if the VR-731 is not compatible, the TA did not go for the ZF HP590 or something that is compatible with both the RTS and M11 combo. Thanks for the info Trevor!
Peace
DaShawn
I don't know if Cummins will "bounce back" based on the fact that their engines are quieter.
Talk to any mechanics, and they'll tell you if a Cummins engine breaks, you throw away the engine and put a new one in. If a Detroit Diesel breaks, you fix the part that broke and put it back on the road in a matter of hours.
Not the new Generation Cummins, That is was NJ Transit has got now in all of their new buses (i.e. Metro-Ds & Nova RTS), they are all Cummins ISC engines which was designed with less to fix! I talk to a maintenance person at my mothers Garage, Market Street Paterson, and he told me that the Cummins is a piece of cake to fix and he'd rather fix that the a DDC any day!
Trevor
Does LI Bus now use the M11 in their CNG Orions also?
Also what type of engines do the Casey Stengal Orions have?
yuck yuck yuck to orions 101-290, 298 and 301-316, that's all I got to say.
FR
LI Bus Orions use Cummins L10G coupled to Allison B400R Transmissions
Orions #101-290, 298, 301-316 use Detroit Diesel Series 92 Engines coupled to Allison HTB748 Transmissions
#291-296 use Cummins C8.3 coupled to Allison HTB748 Transmissions
#287-300 use Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC III coupled to Allsion HTB748 Transmissions
#317 use Cummins L10G coupled to ZF HP590 Transmission
#400-580, 611-681 use Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC III coupled to Allison B400R Transmission
#581-610 uses Cummins L10G coupled to ZF HP590 Transmissions
#6000-6349 uses Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC IV coupled to Allison B500R Transmissions
I hope this has helped!
Trevor Logan Junior
Why does LI Bus use L10G instead of M11 in their Orion CNG's? I thought because of some "defect" the Cummins engines had to be replaced in buses, or was that problem just with the diesels?
The L10G was the leading CNG engine! The M11 is not a CNG engine. Cummins is in the process of developing a M11G engine but it is not on the market yet! The only Bus CNG engine at Cummins is the C8.3G but LI Bus Orions utilizes the Cummins L10G engine. There was NO DEFECT!
Trevor
The defects you may be thinking of were in the straight-diesel version of the L10 engine. Cummins originally marketed it as the "answer" (for lack of a better description on MY part...) to the then-upcoming fuel standards of 1995. For some reason, which I do not know, it did NOT meet expectations. The property where I drive (Orange County TA, in southern California, had all the L10 diesels replaced by either M11's or C8.3's (all still diesels) at the expense of Cummins.
The CNG version of the L10 is going strong and has met every expectation.
The L10G in its early days did have surging problems that crippled LAMTA's fleet of experimental Flxible Metros that are now being scrapped or have already been scrapped. Those buses were out of service for about 6 to 8 months until Cummins was able to fix the engines at their expense. Later on after fixing those problems the other production L10G's seemed to be fine so to speak but as a maintainance person at some of the other systems and they might have a different answer or opinion.
Peace
DaShawn
Well the L10G's run great, especially in the brand new 270-289 Orion CNG's. What does NYC Transit use in their CNG fleet at Jackie Gleason, and Queens Surface in their Express coaches?
I've heard the engines in the CNG Orions on the Queens SFC Xpress buses and they sound a little different than LI Bus CNG Orions.
Detroit Diesel Series 50G DDECIV's
Peace
DaShawn
Yes,,
Jackie Gleason's Orions use Cummins L10G with a ZF HP590 Transmission while all NYC DOT Buses (ie Green Lines, Triboro, Queens Surface) use Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC IV with a Allison B500R Transmission!
Trevor
Yes,,
Jackie Gleason's Orions use Cummins L10G with a ZF HP590 Transmission while all NYC DOT Buses (ie Green Lines, Triboro, Queens Surface) use Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC IV with a Allison B500R Transmission! LIB Bus Orions use the Cummins L10G with a Allison B400R Transmission!
Trevor
Here in Norfolk, VA I was amazed to see a small fleet of ex NYCTA RTS buses doing parking lot shuttle duty at our AAA baseball stadium. From looking closely at them, I saw that they were in the 3000 series. I was wondering how much do these beauties fetch in the used bus market?
Not sure what they'd run back there, but usually transit buses in running condition out here on the west coast are sold by auctioneers working under contract to the transit agencies, and they average $4,000 per bus. Then the buyer has to make a deal with the tire leasing company for the rubber on the bus. (Most transit agencies actually lease the tires on a per-mile basis, and that includes tire maintenance by the tire company personnel.)
Our agency sold off a bunch of 1983 Gilligs, and they went for anywhere from $1,300 up to $8,700 each; they all had half a million or more miles on them. None were wrecks. Many of them wound up at other transit agencies who paint another $10,000-$20,000 to have them rehabbed!
And just to put the used bus thing in perspective, the prices printed in the Times yesterday for a NEW bus ranged from $270,000 for an RTS to $411,000 for a New Flyer D60.
-Hank
Here are the used bus market prices for the most popular buses:
Grumman Flxible 870 or Flxible METRO = $12,000 to $20,000
RTS = $12,000 to $20,000
GMC & Flxible New Look = $2,000 to $6,000
MCI MC9 = $40,000
Trevor
Goes to show you what a piece of crap a Gillig Phantom is. They average around $4,000 used.
I noticed that bus 203 has an MTA logo on left side in the front. I saw 404 today on Main St. The passenger side has a Stengel sticker but on the driver side, it has a Kingsbridge Sticker. 540 has no stickers at all. 670 still has Yukon stickers on it. Are buses 505-515 going to CAS? When are the 400s leaving for AMS? And MCH is gonna receive 223-232 from CS along with 173-222?!
MM2000
MCH can take all those 6 cylinders. Make Stengel an all Series 50 depot. (500s,600s,6100s) Those 6 cylinders remind of those friction powered toy cars when i was a kid that you pulled back on the floor to make them go forward. Give MCH 249-316 too in exchange for their 6000s.
Don't you dare take those 6000s from MCH! MCH is going to be a all Orion Garage just like AMS and CS! But it'll be a pot luck mix with AMS bein the exception, AMS WILL be a all Series 50 Garage!
Trevor
I would have to agree with your Trevor, as of right now I just spoke to one of my bus operator friends out of Mother Hale told me last night that this depot is full Orion with no RTS's left on the property. I rode 211 last night on the M7 and she was fast but jerky. The problem lies in the transmission. Those MT747 ATEC's are horible, and what is worse is that if you don't turn off the retarder you are in for on hell of a ride. Alot of the drivers do not like the Orions due to the drivers seats which places the shock to your knees instead of your back, which neither is good but more drivers are taking sick time due to bad knees and other ailments. I personally am not a fan of the Orion V's from 1993 either, but how nows may be in another 3 to 6 years they start to change the engines in them to the current to make a standardization.
Peace
DaShawn
Very TRUE DaShawn!!!!
Trevor
You mention a lot of problems that I must deal with daily as the starting dispatcher at Mother Hale. I must remind all Operators to turn on the retarders despite the fact I know they do not like running with them on. But because NYC transit managers feel that it saves on brake shoe wear I must remind operators daily.
Also many I my larger taller Operators do not fit comfortably in the 100, 200 Orions. While I try to accomodate them with a 6000 when possible there are times when I tell them they must take the bus.
These issues must be delt with with the Union and Management. My only responsibilty is to make sure service is regular and one time.
The article in the Times yesterday got me thinking,
always a hazardous endeavor. How about bringing
back the C-49 Mack bus? They would be a lot more
interesting to look at, compared to the boxy Orions.
Of course they would have to be original mid 50's
technology. Is this unrealistic? Okay, how about
removing the outer shell of the Orions, and putting
C-49 shells over it instead. Call it an aesthetic
retrofit. Not likely to happen? How about taking
the museum Mack and repainting in Ave B colors and
running it along Grand Street again permanently.
Also unlikely? Were any of the retired Macks sold
to foreign countries and still running with their
sad front visage greeting passengers? Maybe that's
where I could go and be happy.
All very unlikely. Modern bus bodies are made of much lighter materials than those old C49s. This, of course, means for greater efficiency. There are also higher safety standards, and improved passenger comfort.
-Hank
I think you will find that the orions are heavier than the GMC, old looks (22,500 lbs.) the New looks (22,000) the RTS's (34,000 lbs.)
I do not know what the Macks weighed. I would guess in the 20 to 30,000 pound range.
I think the orions are more like 38,000 + lbs.
Many of the older transit buses weighed in around 20-23,000 pounds.
That was in the days of NO wheelchair lifts, and buses basically did
not have heavy frames under the floors as they do nowadays.
An RTS weighs more around 27,000 pounds. Many people mistake the GVWR stickers saying 34-39,000 pounds as their actual weight. The buses nowadays do NOT weigh 34-38,000 pounds. Those again are the GVWR's (which is what the bus CAN weigh fully fueled and loaded.)
Most states have maximum axle limits of 20,000 to 22,500 pounds. It is for this reason the third axle exists on the MCI and other tour/charter type buses -- the bus itself weighs around 34,000 pounds empty, and with a potential load of passengers and their baggage, they would go way over the axle weight limits.
All buses must be wheelchair lift equipped. Older buses that do not have the lift will not be remanufactured for NYCTA. The Blitz buses that were in service several years ago were removed for this reason. Retrofitting a lift is not a viable option.
I am definitely a member of the (perhaps) small C-49 Mack fan club. (Although I dreamed just last night of seeing C-50s running in Manhanttan, freshly painted in dark blue and silver.) The only C-49 I've seen for years has been the Museum's 6200 series bus which has been missing from the last two bus festivals. It's too bad that NYCTA didn't think to save more than 1 Mack bus in all the museum collection. Are there any others anywhere else that anyone knows? There isn't even a good model. Why doesn't Corgi, which has done great GM models in recent years, issue a Mack mode? A C-49 model would be great, but I'd settle for any other Mack transit bus model.
Most of the time Ave B ran C-41 on Grand Street
Phil Hom
ERA 3620
Not only were the C-49's a more interesting and
emotionally expressive bus, but they had a fully
driver controlled rear door, which customers were
more comfortable in using. And Alan pointed out
that they were unique in having a sticker saying
Move to the Rear of the Bus. Probably on the newly
remanufactured C-49's, we could modify that sticker
to read: Move to the Rear of the Bus and Use the
Rear Door to Exit. That settles it in my mind.
Does anyone know when the next MTA meeting is?
I want to present my case to them. If it's on a
weekday, I'll need an attendant to accompany me
otherwise the hospital won't give me a day pass.
TA buses already HAVE that sticker; 'Please move to the rear; Keep front platform clear; Use center door for exit'
Problem is, the cows and sheep are too stupid to heed it.
-Hank
i FORGOT WHAT CITY i SAW IT IN, BUT i REMEMBER BOTH IN SAN JUAN AND THE OLD NJ PUBLIC SERVICE USED TO HAVE A GATE OR TURNSTYLE THAT THE PASSENGER WENT THROUGH SO THEY HAD TO USE THE REAR DOOR. THE DRIVER PUSHED A BUTTON SO THE TURNSTYLE/GATE, WENT THE OTHER WAY TO HELP SOME PERSON WHO NEED HELP USE THE FRONT DOOR
Not many, but they are some new NYC Bus, NYC DOT, and NJT Pictures there, Much More will be added by the end of this coming week!
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
TransiTALK
A previous thread mentioned the prices of buying a used transit bus (ranging from $2,000-20,000).
How feasable (sp) would purchasing such a bus be for a non-transit person (like a church, for use as the church bus). Would the maintanence make it impossible? Do you have to get a special license to drive a transit bus?
The cost, at first glance, seems comparable to that of a more "normal" bus for groups like church, but I am not sure what you would be getting yourself in to by using a used bus.
Thanks for your help,
Brandon Bostian
Buses need to be inspected.
Maintenance is expensive.
Retired transit buses are retired because they are worn out
You can rebuild one for about 60% of the cost of a new bus
Yes you need a CDL license to drive it.
In the long run it is cheaper and safer to charter a bus when you need one from a good operator than it is for a church to operate it's own buses.
Let the peacher move your spirit and bus company can move the rest of you.
Here, in California, you need a commercial driver license and medical certificate to drive any vehicle that weighs over 26000 pounds. If that vehicle transports passengers, you need to get a "p" endorsement. Not too difficult, if you can get together the vehicle, insurance, the driver...
The condition of used buses drops dramatically with every owner. If you can get one directly from the transit agency at retirement, you might get a good one, and you can get all the repair and maintenance records.
Early today i was talking to my father who work at West Side Depot & he telling me that West Side Depot will loss M34 to Manhattanville Depot & M86 to 126st Depot. West Side Depot is getting M116 & M66 from 126st Depot & M23 from Hudson Pier Depot. Also New Flyer Articulated buses will arrive at West Side Depot in Jan. They going to get Articulated buses from Gun Hill or Kingsbridge Depot. By the way West Side Depot will be getting buses 3000s,3100s,3200s & 3300s buses from East New York Depot.
Peace Out
Meaney
Even though I favor the 3000s, I can't see them going to Manhattan. I have an idea though. Send 9140-9149,9569-9605 to Westside and kick over the 3000s to Fresh Pond.
I knew exactly what you were going to say even before I read your posting!
Yeah, I knew you would agree.
The logic of operating the M34 out of Manhattanville eludes me. I suspect that won't happen, unless there's more to it than a simple switch in depots.
I think I've got it. Westside will have Artics, and 2 Artics takes up the space of 3 regular buses. They won't be able to store as many, so some routes must be shifted. But I was in the belief that the artics were going to the M15 and possibly the M42. Are they moving the M15, or have plans been changed?
-Hank
they are just testing them at westside. supposedly,M42,M79 and M86 are getting artics. 126th depot cant get them cause there is no room for them
The 34 almost runs past the front ddor of WestSide. How about moving the 102 out to MTV as the 101 and 103 operate now?
This is only for temp when the new 100th Street Depot open late 2001. They will have M86, M96/106, & M101/102/103 also X90/92 back where they belong & maybe they might have M79. That Depot will have only Articulated buses & maybe MCI or Orion express buses. I will find out more information soon.
Peace Out
Meaney
if they are to get 3000's,3100's,3200's and 3300's from East New York, i hope they update the windows on those buses cause the scracthitti on those buses is horrible.
After all this new "information," I have only one question. Who's your dad?
Alan, My father name is Nelson Justiniano & he used to work at 100th Street Depot for 15 years after 100th street Depot close. He work morning shift on M79 from Monday to Friday.
Peace Out
Meaney
Anyone know where I can get a model/toy RTS bus? (NYCTA or NJT)
B46M Limited
Hot Wheels Made A Rts-3 Bus Model "Rapid Transit" In 3 Designs in the former LA RTD Lines and one as a school bus. Produced In 1980 -> 1983.
Galoob's Micro Machines 1998 Set #36 Mass Transit Includes A "RTS" Bus.
Pirate Models Of UK Makes At Least A Dozen Models Of US/Canadian Transit Buses In HO Or N Scale Including Models By GM (RTS, Flexible), TMC (RTS), Grumman (Metro, #870).
The Transit Museum gift shop has RTS "piggy banks."
You can contact Trevor Logan, he has some model buses and he could probably tell you where he got them.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Write to:
Royal Coach
911 Conley Drive
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-5159
(717) 691-1147
Ask for a catalog, they have a great selection, thats where I bought my NJT RTS, MTA RTS, MTA MCI, NJT MCI, MTA Orion, NJT Orion, and a special MTA Flxible (It's Huge though!) Its really great and they have a wide selection of other vintage and recent buses to choose from, You'll Love It!
Trevor
aka MTA Boy
Trevor, Thanx for the info. This is the same company that makes the banks for the TA Museum Gift shops. Wonder what the price difference is?
Thanks for the info. Do they have a website as well?
B46M Limited
Just recieve my catalog today. I already ordered a MTA Bank Promo RTS(New MTA sign), NJT Bank Promo RTS, and the MTA Flexible. Looking to get more. They said that they have 2 Orion V left for $ 220. I think I am going to order the MCI next and then the Bee Line buses. Once again, Thanks alot.......
B46M Limited
The most common one, I would say, is the 11" long plastic 'piggy bank' type RTS. There are various sources of them (as others have mentioned) and I was able to buy them in cases of 12 buses, undecorated, for about $52.00 per case through Universal Coach Parts (the bus parts source for the bus companies...) I don't know if they are still available at UPC, but you might want to give them a try.
Pirate Models, over in England, also made a kit from which you could make the slant-back or square-back version just by substituting the appropriate piece when you assemble the kit (as well as bumper bulges for the rear bumper on squarebacks or retorofits).
A friend of min acquired yet another RTS model, a die-cast, very similar to the Road Champs Flxible Metro in HO scale. We still haven't figured out who made this RTS, it is stamped "Made in Taiwan" on the bottom, and believe it or not, it came in MTA New York City Bus colors!
You may want to go to eBay (online auction) and use their search feature, and type in "BUSES", and you'll find all sorts of weird stuff. This is where my friend found the oddball NYMTA RTS.
Gents, Ladies, another visit from me into Bus talk from Subtalk !! :^)
Can anyone update my list of current NYCTA Bus Depots...
I show:
Bronx (MaBSTOA)
Gunhill,Kingsbridge,Mother Clara Hale, Amsterdam
..
Manhattan (MaBSTOA)
Westside,Hudson Pier, 126 Street (NYCTA)
..
Brooklyn (NYCTA)
East New York,Fresh Pond,Jackie Gleason,Flatbush,Ulmer Park
..
Queens (NYCTA)
Casey Stengel,Queens Village,Jamaica
..
Staten Island(NYCTA)
Castleton
Yukon
..
Also are the addresses and Borough/neighbourhood that these depots are in posted anywhere..?? I'd like to check out a few depots on
my next vacation.
Thanks as usual for any help
Rob :^)
London UK
Manhattanville in Manhattan.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Yukon Depot is at Yukon Ave and Forest Hill Rd on Staten Island. From the SI Ferry take the s44/94 or s61/91; both routes end at the depot, despite the 'SI Mall' on their destination signs.
Castleton Depot is on Castleton Ave, between Clove Rd and Pt. Richmond Ave (sorry I can't narrow it down more) From the ferry, the s46/96 runs past the depot.
The former Edgewater depot is now an RTS storage area, that's at Bay St and Edgewater Plaza, Clifton station on the SIR, or the s51 to Edgewater Plaza.
AK Turnaround, being used as a parking area for the MCIs, is at Arthur Kill Rd and Richmond Ave, from the ferry take the s74 to Richmond Ave, from Yukon take the s59 or s79 to Arthur Kill Rd. From Castleton, take the s59.
-Hank
Castleton Depot is at Castleton and Jewett Avenues.
S66 and S67 run by Castleton too via Jewett Ave. Also could take S44 and get off at Post Rd. Depot is 1 block north. You'll know once you see Jewett Ave when you're coming from Richmond Ave. If I'm not mistaking, if you're coming from Manhattan, you could take the X10 bus to Castleon Ave and Jewett Ave. If coming from SI Ferry, Edgewater is reachable by taking SIR to the 3rd stop then walking down block to Edgewater. May I warn you that Edgewater is a difficult depot to see what numbers are what and to take any pics. Trust me, I've been there. Your best bet would be to take SI Ferry across from South Ferry in Manhattan, a 25 minute ride. Then hop on S46 bus and get off once you see the buses on the left side via Castleton Ave, Castleton Depot. Then walk up the block that's east of Jewett Ave. Go to end, I forget the name of the block, take S44 to Richmond Mall. Behind it, you'll see Yukon Depot. Get either the FunPass or weekly Unlimited Card if you want to see the depots.
More will come soon. See ya later, tough guys!
Hey tough guy, I can help you out as much as I can:
Queens:
Casey Stengel: take 7 to 126 Street Willets Pt
QV: take F to 169 St then Q36 to 222 St and 97 Ave
Jamaica???
Brooklyn:
FLA: All I know id that it's reachable via B46 Bus via Flatbush Ave
I think B60 too.
JG: Here's the address: 871 5th Ave
ENY: Take A,C,J, L or Z to B'Way Jct.
from ENY: Take B20 to FP. FP is at Fresh Pond Rd via 67 Ave- under M train El. FP is in Queens.
Bronx:
KB: Take 1 or 9 to 215 St walk down 1 block east.
GH: Take 2 or 5 to GunHill Rd to BX28 to I-95.
OR take 7 to Main St then take QBX1 to Baychester Ave
Manhattan:
Pier: 23 St and 12 Ave- take M23 bus to Chelsea Pier
WS: 41 St and 11 Ave take M42 to 41 St and 11 Ave
MHV: Think it's at 155 St and Harlem River Dr
MCH: All I know is via Amsterdam Ave upper Manhattan
126: Take M15 bus to 126 St and 2nd Ave in Harlem.
SI I already gave you.
FR
If you want DOT email me and let me know. Thanks!
FR
The B46 runs on Utica Avenue, Flatbush is not anywhere NEAR the B60, or Flatbush neighborhood (not Avenue) for that matter. The bus is on Fillmore Avenue between the Triple intersection of East 49th Street, Fillmore and Fkatbush Avenue and Utica Avenue. It is accesible by B9, Kings Plaza branch of the B41, B46, B100 and Q35. It is within easy walking distance of the Bergen Beach of the B41, B2 and maybe B3 and B78 or EVEN B82 or B7 if you want to walk, but that doesn't make the slighest bit of sense.
Last time I visited family and checked that area/neighborhood is Flatbush or East Flatbush if we are going to be technical. So take your pick that could call it East Flatbush Bus Depot. The other info is dead on target.
Peace
DaShawn
That area is not East Flatbush. If you go about 5 large blocks down Utica, you'd end up in East Flatbush, going down Flatbush Avenue, you'd end up in Flatbush.
I believe the area is known as Flatlands not Flatbush.......
B46M Limited
It's OK to call the area of Flatbush depot Flatlands (it was part of the town, you know) but Flatlands is OFFICIALLY a bit north of there. The area of the Flatbush depot can be called Marine Park or Old Mill Basin (or Mill Basin if you're one of those people).
I think it is on the border of Marine Park, Flatlands, and Mill Basin....... All I know is that I cannot wait until it get the 'tics.....
B46M Limited
When are the artics finally coming? Will the be New Flyer D60 (like in Bx) or D60LF (low floor)? I assume they'll be used on the B41 and B46. Maybe others?
They will be D60's from the 2000 option order. Just like the units in the bronx. There are no D60LF's on order as of right now but things can chnage. Thanks for the information on that area but what we know as certain areas really do not apply any more due to numerous factors to make a area more viable for real estate purposes. So like I said once before as of right now in 1999 this area is classified as "East Flatbush". Do I agree with that? No! I agree with you guys, but when the city want's to change something they do it.
Peace
DaShawn
No problem Dashawn!!!!! I wonder why the area is classified as E.Flatbush???? I always thought of Flatlands.....
B46M Limited
I just looked at the Daily News. There is an article about the oil leak at Flatbush. The News classify the depot as a Mill basin depot.
I guess we will never know..........
B46M Limited
They will be used on the B44 and B49 as well. There is speculation that when the Artics come, the B2 and B31 will go to UP. Flatbush will be all artics for the B41, 44, 46, and B49. I guess some of Flatbush NOVA Bus will go to UP as well...... I do not know for sure. ...........
B46M Limited
For JG, take the M,N,B,or R to 36st station.It's about 1 block from the station.
Manhattanville Depot is on Broadway between 125th and 137th Streets on the 1/9.
Actually Manhattanville Depot on 12th Avenue between 133 and 132nd Streets. You can take the 1/9 Broadway line to 125th Street and from there it is a short walk or even from 137th Street and Broadway.
Peace
DaShawn
That's what I said, the outside yard entrance is on 12th avenue. I think they pull in through there too.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Jackie Gleason Depot
By Subway: B,M,N,R to 36St. Walk to 5Av and then to 37St.
By Bus: B63 run in front of the depot. B35 and B70 to 5Av and walk up two blocks. B37 to 37St.
ENY Depot:
By Subway: A,C,J,L,Z to Bway Jct.
By Bus: B12, B20, B25, B83, Q24, and Q56 run in front of the depot. B40 to last stop(Atlantic-Penn Av)
Flatbush Depot:
By Bus: B9, B41, B46, B100 run past the depot. B2 to Ave S. and Flatbush. Walk a short block to Fillmore Av.
B46M Limited
MHV is no where near Harlem River Drive, its on like 133rd street and Riverside drive. To get there take the 1 train to 125 and bway and walk to 133rd and riverside, cant miss it. MCH is 146th and Lenox avenue. I guess you can take the M102 to the last stop?. 126th street depot you is on 126 and second avenue. Take the M15 to last stop. Don't take M23 to Chelsea Piers to go to HUD. Take M11 to last stop and walk to 12th avenue. Thats all I know. Hope it helps.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Many thanks gents for all your recent postings...
together with my 5 Boro atlas i'm sure i'll find them!
......
Has anyone thought of putting this information on their (or this)
site..??
Maybe it could appear under F.A.Q
as i'm sure someone will ask again.
It will make a nice change to get away from the red double deckers
here in London and sample the TAs fleet.
Regards
Rob :^)
(Thanks again to all that replied)
I think meaney's page has depots on it.
Peace Out
-Clayton
hey ppl, I found a spare 24 exp roll of film around the house so I'm thinking of squeezing some last minute pics before school which starts on September 8! OK, I'm open to suggestions for manhattan, 88st to 57th street anywhere between those streets I can go. I would like to have some suggestions before Tuesday because I'll be going out on Tuesday probably. I'm open for any suggestions. Thanks a lot.
Peace Out
-Clayton
If you go to a public school (most people do, so I'm almost safe in assuming) school starts on 9/9/99. It usually starts on Wednesday.
Best locations: Columbus Circle via B'way
B'way and 65 St
Any Avenue from 1st-10th
York Ave Q'Boro Br
57, 66/67, 72, 79 or 86 st
MVM Express, I know my dates here, and you weren't safe in assuming because I go to a private school. Thanks.
Peace Out
-Clayton
For those most variety, try 57 & 5. TA Expresses, private line expresses, local buses from all Manhattan depots. Kind of a bus nexus, huh? Southwest corner is best vantage point.
Thanks a lot, I'll definatly go there tommorow!
Peace Out
-Clayton
Last Wednesday i went to take some pictures at Fordham Plaza & i saw a Bus Stop Sign & say Q44,Bx15 & Bx55 limited. Q44 at Fordham Plaza??? What the story ??? Are the Q44 going to change to Fordham Plaza expect Bronx Zoo?? Just post this & let me know.
Peace Out
Meaney
I know months ago, there was talk about this. I think somebody said that the idea was dropped. You might want to check past posts. Did you take a picture of this?
B46M
This was dropped recently ,,with the Q20 and Q44 revamping
Steve
Today i added 15 new pictures on GMC's Page & will add more bus pictues this week.
www.angelfire.com/nj2/nyctmtabus/index.html
Peace Out
Meaney
Today i just added 9 new pictures on New Flyer's page & 3 new pictures on Orion's page. Next Stop TMC & Novabus pictures. Don't forget to sign my guestbook & enjoy it my bus page
www.angelfire.com/nj2/nyctmtabus/index.html
Peace Out
Meaney
PS i will be update my bus & subway's page every month not every two weeks. Thank you
Why would 3000s go to WS? Most of them are heading to the junk yard for parts. Makes no sense! Pier is gonna give them 8200s in exchange for 7500 remans?!
FR
they are probably going to brooklyns favorite junkyard,
ulmer park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as a resident who rides buses that come from ulmer park depot,i am upset that u call it a junkyard for buses. may i remind you that they have the 9200's and 9300's express buses, and they are not junk
Amen!
And U.P. may be getting 25 MCI coaches.
keep on dreaming
Your the one that should be dreaming if you work at UP. Anyway i cant confirm UP will get MCIs but i have heard it mentioned a few times already.
The only thing I heard concerning Ulmer Park and Express buses is the on again, off again rumor that UP may become an all express depot. I doubt that it will happen. Deadheading all the way to Staten Island to go to Manhattan is pretty illogical.
Right, it may become a all express depot for Brooklyn routes only!'
Trevor
That would be nice to see some 7500 series RTS's out of Hudson. There was rumor running around for a little while that we at Hudson was going to loose our 8200 series but was unknown to who and for exchange for what. Why would they be sending all of those 3000 series units to WS for anyway it just makes no sense. But alot of things that the TA does not make sense. The good thing is alot of the 3000 series buses have been repowered with 6V-92TA's instead of the 6V-71's that they were originally equipped with. Would have been nice to see 3160 at WS. Is it possible that there will be anymore 7000 series rebuild in the near future?
Peace!
DaShawn
Were there any TA routes that were once private routes?
How about private routes that were once TA routes?
B46M Limited
Just about all of them. Most of the Staten Island routes came out of a company that (I think) was called 'Staten Island Coach Co.' until 1948. Their garage is now the District 1 garage for the Dept. of Sanitation.
Many Brooklyn bus routes are former BMT or BQT trolley lines.
-Hank
Here's a quick summary. All TA routes were once private, if you want to go back 60 years:
Brooklyn Division - acquired by NY City in 1940 as part of BMT takeover,
Queens - acquired 1947 (North Shore Bus Co.)
Staten Island - acquired 1947 (Isle Transportation, previously Staten Island Coach).
Manhattan (not MABSTOA - but today's M15. M22, M50, M66, and M31): acquired 1948 (Comprehensive and East Side Omnibus).
MABSTOA - acquired 1962, formerly 5th Ave Coach, NYC Omnibus, and Surface Transportation Corp.
You left out one -The Ave B and East Bdwy in 1980
I have a vague recollection that Triboro's Q72 route may have been a TA route many years back, but I'm not 100% sure.
The Q-72 was a Brooklyn Disvision route until the summer of 1960 when it was transferred to the Queens Division and assigned to Flushing Depot. It was then redesginated the Q-72 at that time(when it was a Brooklyn Division route it was called the B-72).
It was sold to Triboro Coach in January 1961
I saw this B72 in a listing over 20 years ago. I had always thought the "B" was a misprint for a "Q" up to now, especially only knowing the Q72 was Triboro. Obviously this listing was outdated even for 25 years ago. BTW, which Brooklyn depot was this assigned to?
The B-72 was assigned to Crosstown and East New York. It may have been in the days after it was convereted from streetcar operation in the old Maspeth Depot.
It was never assigned to Fresh Pond because it was transferred to the Queens Division on the day Fresh Pond opened.
Where was Crosstown depot? Maspeth?
Crosstown Depot is in Brooklyn at Commercial and Box Streets. The B-43 terminal is right outside it. It was closed in the fall of 1981 as a operating depot. I believe the TA uses it as a Storgae Yard and paint shop. Rumor is that it may have to be reopened as a working depot soon.
Maspeth Depot was closed in September 1954. It was located on Grand Avenue at the Long Island Expressway. It was closed because the Expressway was to go right through it. I believe it was an old Trolley Barn and it provided outdoor storage only.
I would love to see Crosstown open again. The following buses should be assigned there: B18, B24, B39, B43, B48, B61. Just like back in the days...... (These are my opinion) Any other buses????
B46M Limited
The B59. Oh yea, it's the Q59 now.
Q32 was the M32.
MM2000
I guess you can add the B59(Q59) and the B53(Q54) buses as well......
B46M Limited
The TA needs to reopen Crosstown Depot. It would ease the overcrowding
in the other Depots. Brian
I know some buses like the B40 or B60 could come out of Crosstown and begin their trips at the Bridge.......
Lets see that would be B18, B24, B39, B40, B43, B48, B61, B60, Q59, and Q54.... Any more??
B46M Limited
xtown will never reopen as an operating depot.the floors are no
longer able to support the weight.the ta will continue to use it
as a paint shop and for office space.
As you can see this is not the kind of question for which there is a simple answer for. I started a project a few months ago to write a history of the firm I work for. The time frame is trolley/bus-substitution to current.
At that time, i.e. La Guardia admin., there were a host of little bus companies and a smaller number of trolley companies. Some of the latter still exist today, e.g. Jamaica Bus, Queens Surface ... some looked like the same compay but weren't, e.g. North Shore Transit vs. North Shore Bus.
The basis for each of the TA "divisions" were big bus companies that went out of business for one reason or another, e.g. 5th Ave, North Shore, BRT(BMT). See Andy's reply for a clue to some more detail.
Why didn't the TA absorb the routes that NYCDOT franchises ... haven't found the answer to that one yet.
Mr t__:^)
The Crosstown Depot was located at the end of what is now the B43(Box St & Manhattan Ave)The 18,39,48 & 59 were some of the buses that used to operate out of there-plus they used to have a lot of the 8000's fishbowls with the bus-a-ramas operating out of there
What depot deos the X32 come out of?
Is this bus mostly used by school students?
B46M Limited
X32 is a split between Jamacia and Casey Stengel.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Nope, it used to run out of CS but now it runs out of QV.
When I was growing up in Coney Island, the B36 had GMs and the B74 had Macks. I had the choice of the two routes to get to and from school and usually walked over to Mermaid Avenue for a ride on the Mack. The Macks felt faster and lighter than the GMs. The driver's area was infinitely more interesting since the Mack had more switches and much pleasanter engine sound.
There are two stories I still remember. One was the time a speeding police car t-boned a Mack as it crossed West 17 Street. The car was a total loss but the Mack only had a small dent. The other was when an elderly woman alighted from the rear doors and was pulped when the Mack ran her over with the right rear tires. Shortly thereafter, NYCTA began installing skinny little right side mirrors on the Macks. Perhaps this is the reason I always try to pull parallel into bus stops.
I was also amused by the sticker that read "Please Move To The Rear," which was printed inside an arrow pointing to that direction. I can remember only Macks having that.
The air brakes had a pleasant and unique sound too.
The only bus I enjoy as much as the Mack is NovaBus LFS 995; two buses that are worlds apart except for the common denominator of being fun to ride.
Gee it's really nice reading Alan and Eric's fond
memories of the Macks. There were many special
things that I remember. When I used to hang out in
my father's cigar store on Sheepshead Bay Road, the
B21 & B1 used to stop across the street. After
stopping, the Mack would take a couple of seconds to
stop bouncing or swaying (air suspension?).Then it
would shoot out a stream of air from under the front
driver's side, (perhaps the compressor going on or
the high pressure relief value opening or perhaps
just catching its breath.) Alan mentioned the
driver's position being more interesting. To me the
driver always seemed dwarfed behind the wheel I
don't whether it was a high steering wheel, or the
seating or just my imagination. And yeah, the panel
red lights were arranged in an interesting way. For
sure the engine sound was much deeper and powerful.
At the Bus Festival a couple of years ago, I heard
the Mack turn over, and I still think it has the
Mack engine in it. Actually Eric, there still is a
Mack of sorts alive. One of the track survey cars
is built in a C-49 shell. Maybe that's what gave me
the idea of retrofitting the Orions. And weren't
there Mack railcars that had the C49 look? Two more
things. I was in Montreal in the mid 60's and
remember seeing Mack buses running but not with
the Mack name. Years later I was told that they
were manufactured by a Canadian company, under
license from Mack. And Alan, are you a bus driver?
I remember riding Macks twice in my life when I went to Staten Island from Sunnyside. The first time I remeber marveling at the wide vertical windows.
The second memory was when I attended Stuyvesant HS 64-67 and went to see the Football team play New Dorp HS at Curtis Field. After the game ended we "liberated" a bus and started pulling kids in through the windows to avoid the fare box..(For some reason I seem to remeber the bus passes were not valid on weekends). After the bus departed for St. George, there was a long stretch with no stops, so a roll of toilet paper was unfurled and made a heck of a streamer. The B/O decided to go straight to the end of the line to get rid of us hooligans. Unfortunately there were some regular passengers who kept ringing the bell to get off, but to no avail.. I guess the B/O thought it was us guys fooling around. Funny thing, I don't remember anything getting back to the prinicpal, because I'm sure there would have been some kind of school wide punishment.
Why would there be a school wide punishment just for the actions of a few students on the Football team? why not just punish the Football team? Didn't the bus driver have the power to throw you off or call the police?
The passengers on the bus were not the football team but students who traveled to see the game. In those days Dr. Fliedner, the principal ran a tight ship. He thought that "Stuyvesantians" had to act like gentlemen. (The school was all boys then). This was the late 60's and he didn't want to recognize that "The Times They Were A Changing. Every HS went to the 64-65 WF. We had to go a boycott of the lunch room to get him to allow us to go.
I guess there were too many of us for the B/O to call the cops. Or maybe it was his last run of the day and he wanted to go home and start his weekend without delay.
Annoyed busdrivers frequently turn the bell off and just stop at transfer points.
NEW YORK CITY TA HAD MACK BUSSES STARTING IN ABOUT 1947, THESE WERE IN THE LATE 1000 SERIES AND RAN IN STATEN ISLAND UNTIL THE THE MID 50 S AND THEY WERE THEN TRANSFERED TO ULMER PARK IN BROOKLYN. IN 1948 THEY PURCHASED 200 MORE ALL 47 PASSENGER BUSSES AND HAD THE SAME HISTORY. IN 1951 WHEN THE TA ELIMINATED STREET CARS IN VBROOKLYN THE PURCHASED A LARGER MACK, THESE MACKS WERE DIFFERENT SINCE THEY HAD SLIDEING WINDOWS, RATHER THEN THE ONES THAT WENT UP AND DOWN. THESE BUSSES WERE NUMBERED 5200-5599, THE 5200-5299 WERE SENT TO SERVICE MANHATTEN ON THE TA LINES THERE.5300-5449 WERE SENT TO FLATBUSH GARAGE, AND 5450-TPO 5599 WERE SENT TO EAST NEW YORK. 5TH AVENUE COACH HAD SOME MACKS THAT WERE USED ON THE 32 LINE TO JACKSON HTS. JAMAICA BUSSES AT THIS TIME WAS ABOUT 95 PCT MACK, AND THE SURFACE TRANSIT MANHATTEN LINES THAT USED THE OLD BARN AT 128TH AND AMSTERDAM ALSO HAD MACKS.SO DID AVE B AND E BDWY AND YONKERS RAILWAYS ALL FROM 1947-TO THE LATE 50S. BIGGEST USER OF MACKS SAN FRANCISCO BOUGHT THE LAST MACKS IN THE LATE 5O S
I recollect some of the 5200 series Macks in Manhattan on the M15 prior to the introduction of the 7000 GM old looks there. I believe there were also older Macks in the 5000 and 5100's running on the M15. I don't remember older Macks at Ulmer Park prior to the introduction of the 6000's. I believe Ulmer Park had some Twin Coaches in the 1000 series prior to the 6000's.
Good memory, Sid. The 5200 series Macks ran on the M15 (and also the M3, 49/50 Sts Xtown) until 1957, when the 7000's series GMC 5101s replaced them. The 5200's then went to Staten Island until about 1960.
Of interest to you and the others who have posted items about Mack buses is that the entire 5200-5599 series was a unique model, called the "Bingham" Mack, built to NYC Board of Transportation (the TA's predecessor) specs. The seats were split at an angle instead of being 90 degrees to the side of the bus. As others have noted, the window sash slid horizontally instead of vertically. The bus was designed to be easily convertible to an ambulance, as evidenced by extra wide doors and hooks inside designed to hold stretchers. Civil defense was big topic in the early 50's, as many people were afraid of an imminent Soviet nuclear attack.
The "Bingham", BTW, was Colonel Sidney Bingham, the Board of Transportation Chairman and a big proponent of buses (as opposed to trolleys). The largest group of Binghams went to Flatbush depot in the spring of 1951 to convert the remaining heavy trolley routes in Brooklyn - Utica, Nostrand, Flatbush, and Ocean Aves.
Andy, I've lived on Ocean Avenue all my life. At the corner of Z and Ocean till I was 10, then just a block down between Z and Voorheis for the last 45 years. You mentioned that some of the C-50's were used on the Ocean Ave. line. I don't ever remember seeing a Mack in the early 50's or ever on the B49. It's almost scary to think that there were Macks right on my doorstep and I didn't realize it. I seem to remember 4000 series GM's, but C-50 Macks? I lived right over the barber shop and I used to keep track of the B36, noting when they passed in each direction. In a way, I hope you're right. It would just be further proof of a wasted youth. Having Macks stop right in front of my building and not realizing it.
The Bingham Macks at that time never ran on the Ocean B-49. They ran on the B41-Flatbush, 42-Rockaway Pkwy, 44-Nostrand, 46-Utica, 17 Remsen, and 2 Ave R out of Flatbush, and later when Ulmer Park received the 6000 series the Kings Highway 5 was transfered to Flatbush Garage, and a couple years on the 7. They also ran out of East New York, on the Old B22-Atlantic, 60-Wilson, and 58-Corona Ave, but as I stated most of them ran out of The Flatbush Barn onUtica and Fillmore if my memory coreects me
Thanks Bob for the info about the C-50 Macks on the B49. I know a missed a lot of things as a kid, but I'm glad I didn't have Macks chugging around in front of my building without knowing it. Paul
The Board of Transportation purchased a few hundred Mack C-45s in 1947-48 and numbered them 1600s, 1900s and 5000-5114. The earlier busses were sent to Staten Island, and some later to Ulmer Park, the 5000s went to Manhatten Routes. For all those who are really interested. Scroll down to Bus Links, there are several links there with purchase dates of most Busses in the pre and Post WWII period all they way up to the RTS
Did they also run on the B-7 before the GM New Looks started running in that route? Also, someone mentioned in an earlier post that they ran on B-56 Jamaica Avenue too.
They did run on the B-7 at times, They might have been on the B-56 mixed in with the GMs since they were also housed in E NY. NYTA/Bof T never used Gray, it was a silver. The 6000s came in 2 Tone Green, I am looking at a Bay Parkway B-6 Bus 6019 color photo which I took at my cousins House in Nov 1956 in Bensonhurst with color film right now
Could you post the photo?
i DO NOT HAVE A SCANNER
As I've said in other posts, the 6000 series Macks came in 1956 in a green and white paint scheme, not two-tone green. That is why the Museum's Mack, #6259, is in the green and white scheme. Perhaps your 1956 photo has faded or discolored.
I recollect that Bingham Mack bus #5308 was the first of its class to get the "new" TA two-tone green repaint job in the late 1950's. There may have been a few other Binghams to get the two-tone green paint job, but not very many.
At least from 1956 on, B-49 Ocean Avenue used GM's numbered from 4000 to 4499
My first Mack experience/memory was not a good one.
It was on the M104 heading west on 42nd Street. I found the bus to be slow and cumbersome and it smelled of diesel fuel (it was winter and the windows were closed!). The floor's rubber matting had "bubles" at several places. I know that Surface did not keep up with the buses and for a bus enthusiast this did not make things any better.
Surface had the feature that the rear door was open once the driver unlocked it and the passenger stepped on the rear door treadle. I saw many passengers going crazy to step on the right spot.
I opted for exiting through the front at a crowded stop!
Actually the GM Busses replaced tjhe Trolley on Ocean Ave in 1951. Ocassionally in the early days, you would find a couple Twin Coaches Mixed in. They ran out of the old Coney Island Car Barn
Just some additional evidence of how stupid I am, as if people had any doubt about that subject. After I posted my last message, I went looking through the piles of magazines and found the March-April 1974 issue of Motor Coach Age which was devoted to Mack buses. It's about 46 pages long, with about 10 pages on the post WWII Mack buses. I checked on Motor Coach Society web page, and the issue is no longer available. If anyone is interested, maybe I can make make you a copy. I don't know if that would be entirely legal.
As long as there is no profit involved, copies of copyrighted material may be made and distributed. Courtesy dictates, however, that permission should be requested.
So it seems Macks were used on the B-1. I saw the B-21 only once, in May of 1961, and GM old looks wre used on it. Is this so? What other routes ran Macks?
I remember the B68 were Macks. Unfortunately records of what buses are kept at depots are retained for a limited amount of time but I would guess that Ulmer Park had Macks.
Just found another old issue of Motor Coach Age the
June-Jul 1975 which was devoted to Brooklyn Bus
Operations written by Bernard Linder, who I know
does all the historical articles in the ERA
newsletter. Anyway at the end there's a History
of Routes and all the routes we remember as Macks
B68, B8, B21, and a couple of the others were all
Ulmer Park buses. B68 starting 7-27-60 , B8 starting
1-15-50, B21 starting 7-27-60 and so on. Looks like
the Howard Brothers Depot (new name for UP) must
have been a heavyweight Mack depot. Some of the guys have talked about the sounds of Mack, UP must have really rumbled at the beginning of a day when a whole bunch of Macks were waking up and getting ready for the day's runs. Gives me the
idea for a Archeological Field Trip: Do some
digging in the area and see if we can come up with
some Mack artifacts. Or perhaps in some out of the
way spot in the area, one of the bus
preservationists from the TA has stashed maybe 20 or
30 Macks waiting to go into service in the
millenium. Anybody out there have back issues of
Motor Coach Age for 1991 & 92? There was a 4 part
article on Macks. Are they any good? I'm going to
order them from the Motor Bus Society.
I think Brooklyn Macks were also running on the B8 Foster Ave line. I'm pretty sure I remember them when I took that line.
You're right. I rode them myself on the B-8. The C-49s were also used in the early 60s on B-4, B-5, B-6, B-9, B-11, B-34, B-64, B-68 and B-74, and probably also on B-1 and B-3.
Besides NYCTA in Brooklyn and Staten Island:
Surface Transit had a large fleet of C45, C47, and C49 Macks in Manhattan and the Bronx. I remember them best on the M100, M101, M103 (59th St) M104 and M106 (42d St), where few GMs were found.
Jamaica Buses had many C45s on its routes until the mid-60s.
Ave B/East Broadway had a predominantly Mack fleet until the early 70s.
Bee Line (Rockville Centre, LI) had Macks in its fleet.
And if you want to go farther afield, here are two large properties I visited that had large Mack fleets:
Niagara Frontier Transit (Buffalo, NY)
San Francisco Municipal Railway ("Muni" for short).
Since today is the fourth anniversary of Roger Arcara's passing on to the Lord, and since he was a great aficio,nado and one of the premier historians of buses, my unwillingness to be identified with buses (they are still "the enemy" to this ardent trolley historian) will be broken only in the memory of this great man. There are only two kinds of buses that ever found my favor ("favour", as Roger would say), and among the two were the Macks.
The Fordham Transit fleet, a/k/a the Reservoir Trans(it/portation) fleet - Roger would know the accurate details - had Macks in silver and black with gold shape outlines that ran across Fordham Road in the Bronx to Playland, Rye, NY. This was a part of their Boston Road run in the Bronx. I rode these buses any number of times, and they were "true Macks" in my opinion. Many were in the "50" number series as I recall. They were fast, snappy, and had an engine and brake system whose sound I can still replicate. What a treat it was to board one of them and go to Playland! The ride was as much fun as the amusements at the destination.
Then there were also the Surface Trans(it/portation) "1600-1812 Macks", of which more at some other time...not to mention the giant "2900 Macks" that came to the Bronx about 1958.
Since I am not a "bus fan",I do not wish to argue or be informed about model numbers, engines, years/days of delivery or service, etc. The details were, and remain, unimportant to me (I used to rely on Roger Arcara for that information in the very rare instances it was sought), so don't seek them from this source. However, you may enjoy sharing the fact that even as a young teenager I thoroughly appreciated and enjoyed the sounds of a Mack (and well knew what they were at the time), almost always leaning out of the easily raised lower windows to take it all in. Their fast acceleration, and their rapid "pause/snap" shift to high gear, filled faces with exciting breezes decades before anyone thought of air conditioning. Folks like myself had already been attuned to Macks from Surface Trans(is/portation)600 series gas/electric buses, which ran on two lines in my Bronx neighborhood - the #1 Concourse and the #29 Willis Avenue. The letup on the accelerator as the driver made the series/parallel transition on these cumbersome beasts well prepared us for the later snappy transition in the postwar Macks from lower to higher gears. The engines changed octaves but not tempos in the later buses!
Again, don't punish me with "bus inquiries" as a result of this writing, for I do not have the detailed expertise you require nor, candidly, an interest in buses per se. However, having spent several hundred hours riding Macks in the Bronx and Westchester during the late 1940's and throughout the 1950s, with my head outside the windows as often as possible, and remembering how much pleasure they and Roger's talks provided to me, it is yet another pleasure to share the little I know with you. As a trolley fan would say, "Even though they were buses, they were good". They were entirely different from the lumbering, smelly, slow GM buses and were much preferred by riders.
Thank the loving Lord for the goodness of Roger Arcara's presence among us. May his memory be ever with those among you who seek and treasure knowledge about buses! Adieu!
It's strange. I ran across Roger's name today on a picture or a slide, and didn't realize it has been 4 years since he died. I remember him from the ERA meetings, where he struck me as a straight arrow, righteous man. I think I still have a profile of Roger that was done in one of train magazines. Thanks, Ray, for reminding me of a very special man. I miss his presence, even though I didn't know him personally. Paul
Gosh, I remember all those Surface Transportation Company Macks that you mention, but I don't think I ever saw the Fordham Transit Macks that you mention.
And I grew up right around the corner from where that route started at Valentine & Fordham. The earliest buses I remember were some red and grey GM's, numbered 157, 257, 357. I think they were TDM4512's. I do remember them having stick shifts. The company was known as West Fordham by then, I think it may have been a subsidiary of Shortline, as they also had a red and grey paint scheme. BTW, where WAS the garage for the West Fordham buses?
Yes, that was some ride up to Playland! Seemed like it took forever to get there.....
I ALSO FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THE LOS ANGELES TRANSIT LINES BOUGHT 50 MACKS IN 1947 AND RAN THEM UNTIL 1962, BY THEN IT WAS THE OLD LAMTA
I wonder if a recording of the Mack engine sound exists....
I know that there have been subway and trolley rosters, but does anyone know if there are is a history of the bus system and or rosters dating back to before WWII on MTA predecessors such as NYCTA, B of T,
BRT, Surface/TARS, 5th Ave Coach/NYC Omnibus etc
You may wish to check back issues of Motor Coach Age published by the Motor Bus Society (P. O. Box 251, Paramus, NJ 07651)
I do remember an issue being devoted to NYCTA/Brooklyn buses in the 1970's, as well as one on NYCTA/Queens around the same time. (I actually HAD those issues, now if I could only FIND them.....)
I don't recall ever seeing anything on FACL or STS though, and I've been a MBS member since 1973.
The following call was recorded on the TA's Customer
Assistance Line
CUSTOMER: I want to go from the Retired Actors Home
to the Susquehanna Hat Company on Floogle Street.
OPERATOR: One moment please.... Now you know that
the MTA as just changed from designating bus routes
with numbers to using words. What's the name of
the bus you want.
CUSTOMER: I want the name of the bus that goes to
Floogle Street.
OPERATOR: What
CUSTOMER: What's the bus that goes to Floogle
Street?
OPERATOR: That's it.
CUSTOMER: What is.
OPERATOR: Yes. Thank you for calling the MTA
Customer Asssistance Line.
No doubt, the telephone number was ALexander 4444.
The number of Customer Information was not Alexander
4444 , it was Alexander 16 . Are you also an
Abbott and Costello fan Alan? I loved them and the
Stooges, and was recently thinking of posting a
message about changing the name of Ulmer Park Depot
to the Howard Brothers Depot, in memory of Moses,
Jerome, and Samuel Howard aka Moe, Curly, and
Shemp. There would be some special features for the
buses depoted at Howard. When a customer correctly
entered a Metro Card instead of a beep the farebox
would emit some Stooges sound like Yuck,yuck,yuck.
And more to some driver's liking, if the card was
put in incorrectly, 2 fingers would come out of the
box and gauge the customer's eyes. Lastly, anyone
standing in front of the white line would have the
seat of their pants pressed with a hot iron.
Alan, thanks also for the info about copying an
article. Paul
Yes, I love the Stooges and A&C and many others. Note to all prospective transit workers: you can't do the job properly without a good sense of humor.
About 9/1/1999 thirteen historical signs were installed along the Jones Beach boardwalk. Sign #2 (near Parking Lot #6) has a photo labeled 1935 Shuttle Bus. It is a boxy Bee Line bus, with a door to the rear of each axle. Is it a Twin Coach? a White? I recall boxy buses on Comprehensive 66th St Xtown, but I think their front doors were in front of the axle. In 1945 I rode what I recall as a White from Wantagh LIRR to Jones Beach, but it was not the style in the photo on display. Thanks.
I can't answer your question, but your post is interesting if Bee Line did operate to Jones Beach back in 1935. When I moved to Long Island in 1955 I believe the Jones Beach routes from Freeport and Wantagh were operated by Checker Bus Co. In the late 1950's Checker used to rent buses from Ft. Lauderdale Transit Co. for some of the summer Jones Beach runs. Eventually (I don't know what year), Checker went out of business and all Checker routes were taken over by Stage Coach Lines. I believe Stage Coach was a wholly owned subsidiary of Bee Line. If I'm not mistaken, sometime before the MSBA takeover in the 1970's Bee Line may have started operating the Jones Beach routes in place of Stage Coach.
On some older orions the fuel gauge would flux a lot. Whay does this happen? Are they defective?
On the right side of the driver, there are two knobs. A red one and a blue one. On saids "Driver Heat". What does the other one do?
Anyone know where I can get my hands on the operators handbook for the
following?
Prevost H3-45
Dina Marco Polo (Viaggio 1000)
Neoplan Skyliner
Sentra
Help would be more than appriciated.
Does anyone know where #7000 is? From what I remember, it was a unique rebuild. Additionlly, this bus was used in TA brochures several years ago. It used to run either the B31 or B2, as I had seen it many times at the Kings Highway stop.
Thanks,
Jeff
It's still in Flatbush.
David
[Does anyone know where #7000 is? From what I remember, it was a unique rebuild. Additionlly, this bus was used in TA brochures several years ago. It used to run either the B31 or B2, as I had seen it many times at the Kings Highway stop.
Thanks,]
I see it almost everyday on the B44 and/or the B46.
Good Bus. Most of the drivers in Flatbush like it. I've ridden it a few times.
Anyone know what is gonna happen with the pilot program there. They are supposed to have little display screens on the M15 I think telling where the next bus is.
Peace Out
-Clayton
The program was delayed, Its still in the planning stages!
I'll keep you posted, I'm calling my inside guy today! So I'll have loads of new information come this evening!
Trevor Logan
Hi there; What with rumors about route switches in Manh. Division; Does anyone know which bus numbers were sent to West Side Depot on 3-22-98, for one week only,(some may have remained), to operate the M-34 & M42?
Message Numbers are in the 6000's on BUS TALK.
That's C-49 Mack territory, as well as BMT Triplex territory. We should all try to make out messages more significant during this period. Unfortunately I have failed at that task. Sorry.... Paul
I was riding to Boston on Saturday on a Greyhound MCI MC-9.
I sat across the driver a seat behind. I was suprise to see a electronic throttle position sensor on the pedel. It was located have way on the pedel. A small ramp under it. I though that all MCI MC-9 used cables to control the throttle. A electric TPS seems a little
advance for such an old bus. Does anyone know what buses use cables?
All the MCI's up to the MC-8's had cable throttles.
From the first MC-9's in late 1978 until around early 1981, they had air throttles. Then they went back to cable throttles, and very stiff ones at that. You really had to mash the foot down to make them jump!
The 102A/C models had cables but were easier to push. I have no experience with the 102B/D models or the new Renaissance, so I don't know.
You mentioned an electronic throttle. Are you sure you weren't on an MC-12? These are basically MC-9 lookalikes, but have a slightly higher roof cap, square headlights, new MCI style tallamp arrays. They are numbered from 1865 up into the 3000's at Greyhound. They have a Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine, with an electronic throttle. (Some buses, I think around the 2460's, have experimental Caterpiller and Cummins engines....)
Yep proberly did. The engines seem to loose steam going up hill.
You mention the MC12 has a Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. But to the best of my knowledge, most MC12 buses were delivered with 6V92 engines. Am I wrong?
Or did Greyhound retrofit the MC12s with Series 50 engines?
A 6V-92 DDEC would have had an electronic accelerator also, much like a series 50
You are both correct. The earliest MC12's from 1992/93 have the DD 6v-92DDECIII's in them. By the time the other units were ordered and built in 1994 the 6v-92 was not offered for new buses and the Series 50 was used instead.
Peace
DaShawn
Does anyone know if the TA will issue Paper Magnetic Transfer Metrocards on the Express Bus to those who end up not having a full fare on a METROCARD and have to use coins to make up the difference?
Thanks.
They've never done so, and they never will.
No, nor will they accept them from local buses. X-bus transfers are doable with MetroCard only. It's the one thing we lost when they started this 'One CIty, One Fare' bit.
On a similar note, I want to start a campaign to have dollar bill acceptors REMOVED from the private buses. Having stood on the sidewalk in the rain waiting for the 5 people in front of me to each insert 3 single bills, smoothing, flattening, all while balancing x number of packages in one arm. Each person took an average of 25 seconds. Me and my MC? 10 seconds. I timed it the second night.
-Hank
[I want to start a campaign to have dollar bill acceptors REMOVED from
the private buses. ]
Where have you been ... the current farebox (here a couple of years) doesn't take bills ... however NY Bus Service is bringing them back.
But just that one of the seven companies.
[re "Step Up", i.e. paper/mag transfer]
At Queens Surface our Express bus will issue a "Transfer", but it's only good to board another of our Express buses ... this many folks do between our Queens routes, e.g. QM-1, QM-2
You can of course get a "Transfer" from a local bus, but by TA POLICY it's not worth 1/2 the Express fare, and you can't swipe it in the Subway (except SI). With a MetroCard from a local bus or Subway the "Step-Up" is only another 1.50 to continue you ride on an Express bus. Lastly with MC from an Express there is no additional charge to finish your trip on a local bus or a Subway. We daily get hundreds of these Step-Ups.
Mr t__:^)
A little clarification, the paper transfers DON'T work in the subway from Staten Island buses, but they DO work on the SIR at St. George, and SIR issues them there as well. Liberty Lines also has bill acceptors, as it was their bus that got me fuming.
-Hank
Actually on Queens Surface, the paper bus trasnsfer (not papaer mag) is only good between the QM1 and QM1-A at 188th st. and Union Tpke.
Mike, I guess you're a customer on that route.
I did clarify with someone in our Transportation dept. that they went back to the old style paper (they always carried them just in case). The paper/mag version was problematic, and since we only need to count the customer once we don't realy have to transact the boarding thru the farebox. You are also right that we don't offer the option on every Express route, why ... the others don't meet. This is not the only set though.
Mr t__:^)
Actually so has Liberty Lines. That now makes 2 out of the 7.
Peace
DaShawn
Where on Liberty Lines do they issue paper transfers?? They used to issue them before for transfer to and from the BxM18 I believe.
I don't know, I am not familiar with that to comment. I was speaking of dollar bill machines. Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service are the only DOT systems to have them on their buses.
Peace
DaShawn
New Pictures come to TransiTALK check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
I rode bus 653 (EX-Triboro M-5) today on the Q60. The driver was pretty stressed out. He was about 8-10 minutes late and took it out among the people. He kept yelling to them to move to the rear. The people never moved. He then parked the bus and said that he refused to move the bus until they moved back. At 1st they didn't but after 2 minutes sitting in the stop, they did. He almost dragged a person on the ground while picking up passengers. The bus was so crowded that people were asking stupid questions like is there another bus behind you? He was like what kind of question is that? They waited. Somebody stood behind him and he told him to move to the rear. But he was getting off at the next stop. He was like yeah, right you say next stop and then you're getting off 20 later. Then he wanted to literally go right through an ambulance because he was honking at it. There was an accident between a car and a garbage truck, car was totalled. He wound up going around the accident backing up then going over the divider on Queens Blvd near 67 Ave. But I saved the best for last: Somebody got on without paying. He then said pay or get off. He was getting his transfer he said okok, but he was like never pass right by me ever again. He was literally going to physically remove this passenger off this bus. Then he told the dispatcher there NOT to hold him up because he was late. And he had 2 more trips to follow, this was his 1st of the day. Bet his day got even worse as the day went on, more crowds travel off peak from 10-3 then at any other time during the day. Anybody wanna catch this mean guy, he's a fill-in for this week on Q60 run 6015. First trip leaves NY around 720-730am. He has a cross in his ear.
I think he had 1 good point: the people HAVE to move to the rear. Only way people are gonna get on and off the bus without any arguments.
MM2000
OUCH!!!!
Trevor
I seriously suggest that you call Green Bus. You have the route, run & bus#. I'm quite sure that their Transportation dept. will take you seriously. At this depot guys like that get brought to the Supt. office. He probally wouldn't get time off if this was the first time, but he would get the message that he's in the "service" business.
P.S. The driver obviously had a radio & could have told folks about how far behind the next bus was.
P.P.S. I would be interested in how Green treats your call. So feel free to e-mail me off line in a few days.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesman for NYC-DOT or my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
Unfortunatley GBL has alot of drivers like the one that was mentioned-not all of them but alot of them
Unfortunately I've seen drivers like this one at GBL too. Other than a recent BusFanning ride I hadn't ridden GBL in years. I think that all too often people will take a service related job and forget that they are there to provide a service. It happens quite often in the retail industry.
Wayne
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name really is Alan and I've been driving a bus for MaBSTOA since June 7, 1982. I started in Amsterdam. After a year and a half, I picked into 54 St and stayed there for a year and a half. Since then, I've been at Hudson Pier. Although I've worked all of the routes at these depots at one time or another, I have been mostly on the Q32 which is, of course, where I am now. I live in Bensonhurst, about eight blocks away from Ulmer Park depot but due to the truly atrocious service here in Brooklyn, I'm more than happy to commute to Manhattan (not to mention that I cannot work out of a TA depot, anyway).
My favorite color is blue and I like to take long walks on the beach at sunset. I'm an Aquarius.
Any questions?
You're also a MetroCard collector who I consider a friend.
Mr t__:^)
Hey Alan, u work since June,1982 & u been driving for 17 years that not bad. My father been a driving for MaBSTOA since March, 1983 but i didn't remember what day he start. Any way he started at old 100th Street Depot untill March 22, 1998 & went to West Side Depot for temp untill new 100th Street Depot open in late 2001. I used to get on his bus almost every weekend for 8 years & i enjoy it riding his bus. Most of time his drive is M101/102. He like that job but his didn't like passerger complain. He call passergers a pain in the ass because passerger doesn't know where his/she going.
Peace Out
Meaney
That's cute!, but the deal is not everybody is supposed to know where they are going and they depend on people like your father to lead them in the right direction.
Peace
DaShawn
Hey Alan! Don't forget you are also a great bus operator also.
Peace!
DaShawn
If every bus operator drove as well as Alan and was as courteous as Alan, New York City would be the greatest place on earth to ride a bus for everyone, not just for bus fans. (Alan: I assume you weren't on your best behavior just because I was on your bus!)
I'm usually like that on buses and even when I'm "nasty," there's a touch of humor in my comments. Once, when service was truly awful on the Q32, I was driving a packed bus when a woman boarded and complained to me she had been waiting forty-five minutes, I responded, "That's pretty good, but there's a woman on this bus who said she waited over an hour, so she wins the washer/dryer! Congratulations to the lady from Woodside!"
Since I told you a bit about me, I would appreciate it if "the gang" on this site would tell a bit about yourselves.
OK. I am a 12 year old student in the 7th grade who is a bus "buff". I enjoy bus photography when I can but I also have a lot of homework. I live in the Upper West Side in Manhattan.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Hey Alan, u already know about my father. About me im 29 years old & single. I work for F.E.G.S. for Disability since March,99 & im disability. I been a bus & subway "buff" since i was 5 years old also im a photography since i was 17 & i enjoy taking pictures. I really want to work for MTA but not bus driver because it is too diffcurt to drive, any way i took almost all the test for MTA & i pass 4 test & other test im taking is Cleaner for MaBOSTA in November. I have a family history of Driving a bus for MTA, My uncle who drove for 25 years at Fifth Ave/Jackie Gleason Depot & he retired in Nov 97 & my cousin's husband who work at Ulmer Park Depot since 1988 or 90.
Peace Out
Meaney
You asked, so here goes. My name is Paul, but I am
not a C-49 Mack Bus unfortunately. I am a free
lance math tutor for high school and college people.
I try to be very good, not because I care, but
because I get around on a bicycle and a number of my
students see me and I'm always afraid that one of
them will swerve to kill me if I have done them
wrong. Speaking about riding a bike, I try to very
careful riding, usually, because I have driven cars
and Brighton Laundry trucks, and I realize bike
riders are not the only thing on driver's minds.
But I have found that bus drivers tend to be very
aware and considerate and careful around me on the
bike, perhaps because I wear a cap with a Mack Bus
mounted on top ( only kidding about the cap, but
serious about the bus drivers) I've only gotten
connected to the Internet at home about 2 weeks ago,
perhaps to the sorrow of people who have to read
some of my silly posts. I live in Sheepshead Bay a
couple of blocks from Lundy's. What's Lundy's,
you're not a Brooklyn person if you ask that. I
could say a lot more, but will ask those of you who
drive to watch out for us dopes on bikes, even ones
with Mack Buses on their hats.... And I throw the
ball to Who..... Naturally .... And whose got it...... Naturally.....
Me again. I don't know how I can describe myself without mentioning two things that might be of interest to subway and bus people. Back in the 70's, I think, when they were junking the R1/9's, I was driving a laundry truck for Brighton Laundry, which was a couple of blocks from Coney Island yards where they were scrapping the cars. To make a long story short, I purchased a whole bunch of parts from the cars and built in my apartment a full size motorman's compartment. The walls are made of Nova Ply, but I have the front windshield,controller, brake stand, side window, switch and fuse box in back,drop seat , door, side switch box, buzzer, windshield wiper, folding outside gate, conductor's controls and step and actually put it all in place. Strangely, I don't really spend much time in there since I put it all together maybe 20 years ago. Maybe I should, and spend less time posting silly things here. The other thing that I treasure is an old Johnson manually operated fare box, which I bought years ago from a bus driver up in Massachusetts after I put an ad in Bus World. It works just fine, and I still love the sound of it as the drum turns. As a kid, I always liked to sit right behind the driver and watch the numbers change on the farebox as the money was counted. Anyway, just two other things that nobody really is interested in. ( I use a lot of self-deprecating humor , to protect myself from the truth. )
Yeah, I miss that chuh-chuh-chuh farebox sound. But I sure don't miss taking down readings at the end of every trip!
I feel like I am reading an ad for a dating service
Can we stick to Transit Related Issues
Thank you
Steve and Michele
I think this is transit related, I would like to know who frequents this page and how far their interest in transit go backs.
Me myself I am a MABSTOA employee since 1995 and currently have the title of Surface Line Dispatcher since 1998.
My interest in transit goes back to the my early childhood being a fan of the buses and also the trains. I use to go to the transit musuem once a year to purchase anything I could afford including books, patches, signs, posters, etc. I use to bother every bus operator I rode with asking questions and learning bus lingo. Currently I volunteer at the Shoreline trolley museum giving tours and operating trolleys. Sometimes I think transit consumes my life but all people need a hobby!
Thank you Fernando Perez. I also want to know about the people who ride the buses, who drive the buses, and who live and breathe buses. Yeah, Mack buses are interesting, so are the Orions, or the engines, or the depots, or the bus numbers, or the companies, or the radio frequencies, or whatever. But it's you and me and everybody else who breathes life and meaning into these things. Why, and what does it does for us are for me very deep and interesting questions. Jim Lehrer, the PBS anchor of the evening news, has a deep passion for intercity buses. He grew up in the 40's in Kansas and for a year or so his father ran an intercity bus company with 2 worn out buses. Jim Lehrer lived and breathed buses, because his father and mother gave it everything. He's written two books. We Were Dreamers tells the story of his family's bus company. And A Bus of My Own is about his later adult life and how he came to buy a 40's Flexible coach. The opening passage of A Bus of My Own expresses his interest so beautifully.
"There stands an ordinary person with me on a street corner waiting for the light to change. Along comes a bus, let's say a blue and white bus with a running dog and the word GREYHOUND on the side. The ordinary person either sees nothing or sees only a bus with a running dog and the word GREYHOUND on the side. I see my father, my mother, my brother and me freezing, laughing and crying in Kansas in 1947. I see cap badges, bus depot signs, cast-iron toy buses and ticket punches in leather holsters. I smell gasoline and mohair seats, rubber-stamp ink and transmission grease. I remember drivers in starched and pressed gray uniforms driving through snowstorms, ticket agents quoting from memory schedules and fares to cities and towns all over America, mechanics throwing up bus engine hatches and declaring 'Her number-three piston's cracked.' " ..... Something about that passage just touches me deeply. Just like two nights ago Ray Crapo posted here his recollection of Mack buses and more importantly his remembrance of Roger Arcara, a friend who shared his interest. I like reading about this stuff and thinking about it afterward. Anyway Happy New Year to all, and to all a good night.
Don't forget Jim's excellent novel about busdrivers, White Widow. Recommended reading to everyone at BusTalk.
I liked buses more than trains as a child. I always wanted to be a bus driver, but when I started driving a car and found out how agressive and rude other drivers were, I felt I would not be able to handle the stressful traffic conditions and dealing directly one-on-one with so many people who would verbally abuse you when you were late and it was not your fault. I saw the good and bad side of people in the banking business previous to my TA employment and wanted to avoid one-on-one situations. I decided to go to the subway side. After surviving 14 months as a conductor, I became a motorman, and even though I am a frequent critic of TA management and policies, I am content in what I do. The problem with the motorman vs. the riders is most interactions with the public is a complaint! I wish the TA would repair the air conditioning in the E line dispatchers office, locker room and crew room at Jamaica Center! At least the Central Park horses don't have to work in that kind of heat!
They should replace the crew room with one of the rooms on the mezzanine at the south end of the station. We shouldn't have to have a crew room in the tunnel!
Unfortunately for the motormen, a lot of the
feedback they get from the public must be
complaints. I have a belated ( 10 -20 years) thank
you
that I owe a motorman. The details are hazy, but I
think I was on a CC coming into W.4th. Smoke was
more and more noticeable, and although I am a train
and subway buff for years, getting stuck or trapped
in smoke scares the crap out of me. Anyway, the
train was either R1/9 or an R10, I was in the front
car, and the motorman was a middle age Afro-American
man with some gray hair on the sides ,in full
motorman uniform, and I remember him making
an annoucement " Don't worry folks, I'm going to
get us safely into the station. Everything is going
to be all right. " These may not be the exact
words,(and I'm almost suspect someone will post the
exact words he said), but he was so reassuring
because
he said he was going to take care of us. I should have
written a letter then, and this may not be the best
place now, but I just want to thank the man wherever
he may be. Or maybe, Bill, you can accept the
thanks for him and for all the times you have done
your job and taken care of the people riding your
train. Paul
He's probably retired by now.
The "sunset walks on the beach" was supposed to be funny. I strongly feel that if we know more about the people that leave messages on this board, reading said messages can be more enjoyable. I'm sure some folks are curious as to why your "name" is FDNY and I'm wondering who Michelle is.
FDNY is Steve ,Michele is my Fiancee,,a teacher for Special Ed Kids
I have been with FDNY for 15 years,,,and been into this Hobby stuff since 1963
Steve
Well for me, I have lived on Manhattan's L.E.S. all my life with a brief stay in Englewood/Teaneck NJ and Harlem/Hamilton Heights. I have loved buses since I was 2 years old have been doing bus photography since I was 15. I am 24 now. I have a thing for the Subway also. This transit system is one of the greatest systems from an operational standpoint and it is great to see alot more people who have a great interest in it as I do.
Peace!
DaShawn from the Lower East Side
Home of the M14A, M14C&D
The museum store at GCT has a nice think book on Intercity Coaches. Lots of info on White, GMC, Volvo, Neoplan, MCI, etc. No transit buses. Only problem with the book is the $70 cover price.
-Hank
Good, where did you see it? What were the contents about? Any pics?
Expensive but may be worth it.
Is MABSTOA a private company? Why are NYCTA buses are using theses depots?
B46M Limited
MABSTOA was created in 1962 taking over the routes of the 5th Avenue and Surfice Transit in Manhattan and Bronx. It was created as a division of the Transit Authority to get around Civil Service regulations that the TA was required to have. Basically until the last few years it was opearated as a seperate operation from the TA's Bus Division. Recently the operations have been basically merged into one department. It is believed that once all Tier-1 workers have retired MABSTOA and the TA Bus Division will be merged together.
MaBSTOA also has different work rules than NYCT bus. Fernando Pereze can go into detail but I believe it would cost to raise MaBSTOA employees to NYCT levels.
The biggest difference's are sick time and operator discipline.
TA operators get 12 sick days a year oppposed to 5 for Mabstoa operators. Just to give 12 sick days to all Mabstoa operators would run into the millions and may be a big reason why there is a hold up for unification.
TA operators are civil service employee's subject to civil service law. While Mabstoa employees are not subject to such tight disciplinary procedures.
Just like LI Bus, MaBSTOA has been considered different from NYCT for many years. I think LI Bus will continue to be viewed like this, but the difference between MaBSTOA & TA bus divisions will blur.
Mr t__:^)
Manhattan And Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority
Does anyone know why Cummins put their radiator inside the engine carpartment? It would make more sense if it was facing the outside.
Im pretty sure thats the radiator fan, If its not what is it for?
??? what kind of bus and where do you think the radiator is?
The electric pedels in the new buses always have me asking questions.
Unlike a mechancial pedel the new electronic ones have a ramp and the throttle position sensor under it. Does the box and ramp obstruct the length of travel made by the pedel. Can you press down further with the mechancial then with the electronic ones? To me it looks like it.
Any bus drives out there?
With the cable pedals, you can push the pedal only so far, thatbeing the fully open position on the throttle.
On the electronic pedals, you can push the pedal only so far -- and the little electronic box under the pedal sends the maximum impulse to the receiving unit in the engine compartment, and it opens the thorttle fully.
Both the electronic and mechanicalpedals do the same thing. One may travel farther than the other, but the throttle can only open so far.
iF YOU GO BACK FAR ENOUGH Q/M 32 WAS 5TH AVE COACH 15 OR 16 i AM NOT SURE WHICH, AND IN THE 50S USED MACK AND WHITE BUSSES ON ITS ROUTES AND THE TERMINAL IN THE CITY WAS MADISON PK AT 25TH ST AND 5TH AVE
5th Ave Coach Lines existed from 1885 thru 1962 when it was sieged by the City and became MaBSTOA (this was before the "TA"). They were always a bus company, even when they accuired NY Railways (a Manhattan trolley company), because they only wanted the route, not the trolleys.
In Queens they had just two routes, #15 & #16. 15 was a limited service run from Jackson Heights along Roosevelt Ave to Manhattan via the 59th Street bridge. 16 was a feeder route in and around Jackson Heights. These routes are now the Q32 & Q53 respectively.
BTW, 5th Ave also got linked to 3rd Ave Rail System who leased trolleys to Steinway Transit. The Steinway routes are now part of Queens Surface Corp. .... so we're a surviver ! The current management has counted 75 years from 1932, but I would count from 1891 (NY & Queens County Railway) or even earlier (1880s) for Steinway & Hunter's Point Railroad.
My thanks to SubTalk/BusTalk friends Andy Sparberg, Jorge Gutierrez and others here for making so knowledgeable on this.
Mr t__:^)
If my memory is correct, the #15 and #16 were serviced out of a depot on the south side ofNorthern Blvd and about 78th-80th street. Its probably a new car dealer today.
Also of interest on Northern Blvd and about 51st Street is a shopping center with part of the old Steineay Trolley Barn Entrance as an archway into the center. The trolley barn stood on that site. I don't know if it ever housed buses
Yes, there is a Pizza Hut in the waiting room now, but they left the NY & Q Ry brick work so you can pretend you waiting for a trolley then wake up just before the Q66 comes by. For those farther away who may want to see this bit of history, the N/R local stops just a couple of blocks from there at "Northern Blvd.".
P.S. Did Steinway trolleys go there, not sure, but NY & Queens County Railway/Nassau-Queens Transit trolleys did.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, one correction. The old 5th Ave. #16 became the MABSTOA Q89 and was discontinued at least ten years ago. It was always a lightly patronized route even in the 5th Ave. days. The Q53 was, and still is, Triboro's limited stop express from Woodside LIRR/#7 station to Rockaway Park/B 116th St. via Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvds.
For those who have posted items about Mack buses, the #15 route had a unique fleet of 25 Mack C-50's built in 1951. After 1958, these were moved to Surface Transit routes (by then 5th Ave. had purchased Surface Transit) to take advantage of the large Mack fleet in Surface garages.
Q89 only ran one bus all day.
Kind of like Steinway's Q-100? Steinway drivers used to tell me that the line ran one bus, just to maintain the franchise. Thurston, can you corroborate this?
Also, Thurston, what was the deal with STC and QTC's use of the 2-letter combination on their transfers? Was there any magic to the selection of the letter combinations? Any old books of transfers lying around?
Thanks,
Charles
Charles, Thanks for the questions ....
[Kind of like Steinway's Q-100? Steinway drivers used to tell me that the line ran one bus, just to maintain the franchise. Thurston, can you corroborate this?]
The Q103 does the poorest of the bunch, the Q101 the best, but the Q102 & Q104 are respectable.
[Also, Thurston, what was the deal with STC and QTC's use of the 2-letter combination on their transfers? Was there any magic to the selection of the letter combinations? Any old books of transfers lying around?]
I've only been here 5 years so I'll have to ask one of those questions that after I leave the askee will wonder "why did he want to know that ?"
Mr t__:^)
Not only did the 16/Q89 run one bus per day, but it had to travel from the 54th Street Depot (on 9th Avenue, Manhattan) all the way to Queens. Then carry very little if no riders at all!
(Remember that both 15 Jackson Heights and 16 Elmhurts Crosstown routes were based at Fifth Avenue's Northern Blvd. depot. In 1962, they were both moved to the former New York City Omnibus depot at 54th Street. I believe this depot is now used by the Sanitation department.)
No, it was torn down and is being rebuilt to accomodate the new Dept. of Subways Control Center.
Andy, Thanks for the correction. As many of you may have noticed I still have a lot to learn. One more thing that is great about this group of guys & gails is the NICE way they usually point out an error or ommision that one of us make.
[The old 5th Ave. #16 became the MABSTOA Q89 and was discontinued at least ten years ago. It was always a lightly patronized route even in the 5th Ave. days. The Q53 was, and still is, Triboro's limited stop express from Woodside LIRR/#7 station to Rockaway Park/B 116th St. via Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvds.][ ... one bus a day ...]
Let me do a little history on-line, hope the rest of you don't mind.
In Jackson Heights the 5th Ave #16 went north along Broadway, across Roosevelt Ave then on to Northern Blvd. I had seen here before that the #16 became the Q89. The Q89 no longer exists & at the time I thought it might have been a typo as the Q53 does travel much of that route in northern Queens. Does any one know how busy the Q89 was when 5th Ave used it as a feeder or just after the MaBSTOA took it over ?
I'm also surprised that MaBSTOA didn't unload these two odd balls of it's Manhattan & Bronx service.
Mr t__:^)
I think you've got the wrong routing for the old Fifth Avenue #16 that became the Q89. It went north on Broadway from Queens Boulevard, but turned right around Elmhurst General Hospital to wind up on Roosevelt Avenue and either 81st or 83rd Street. It then proceeded up one of those streets to Northern Boulevard. I recollect that routing was not identical between Roosevelt Avenue and Northern Boulevard Avenue to the Fifth Avenue #15. I believe someone just posted that in its later years, only one bus was assigned to the Q89.
AGAIN I FORGOT TO MENTION. IN 1956 NYCTA PURCHASED MACK BUSSES TO REPLACE THE TWIN COACH BUSSES FROM 1947-48. THESE WERE HOUSED IN ULMER PARK. THESE WERE THE FIRST BUSSES THAT THE TA BOUGHT IN 5 YEARS, AND WERE ALSO THE FIRST BUSSES IN THE TWO TONE GREEN COLORS. ALL PREVIOUS BUSSES WERE PAINTED GREEN AND SILVER.THESE BUSSES STARTED WITH 5600 AND UP. THE MOST UNUSAL THING WAS, THAT THE OLD B-5 KINGS HIGHWAY BUS LINE WHICH TERMINATED AT THAT TIME AT BAY 40TH STREET, IT SEEMED EVERY TWO-THREE YEARS. THE LINE WENT FROM ULMER PARK TO FLATBUSH BACK TO ULMER PARK. THE ONLY OTHER LINE I REMEMBER DOING THAT WAS THE OTHER KINGS HIGHWAY THE B-7 THAT KEPT SWITCHING FROM FLATBUSH TO EAST NEW YORK EVERY FEW YEARS IN THE 50 S.
SOME PEOPLE MENTIONED THAT THEY REMEMBER SOME OF THE GMC OLD LOOK 4510 BUSSES IN THE BRIGHTON/CONEY ISLAND AREAS. THESE BUSSES WERE HOUSED IN THE OLD CONEY ISLAND TROLLEY BARN AT WEST 5TH ST NEAR SURF AVE, WHICH IS NOT APT HOUSES. IN 1956 THE 3 LAST STREET CAR LINES WERE REPLACED, BUT NONE WERE REPLACED BY NEW BUSSES. THEY WERE REPLACED BY GMC4510S FROM 1949. THE B68-CONEY ISLAND WAS HOUSED IN CONEY ISLAND BARN AS MENTIPONED ABOVE, THE B-35 CHURCH AVE, FROM THE OLD 5TH AVE BARN. NOTHING REPLACED THE B-50 MCDONALD AVE LINE, EXCEPT THE ABOVE CULVER EL
Please don't type in Caps. (Hank and Steve, I know this is a somewhat "personal" message, but it does apply to everyone.)
just a minor possible correction to what replaced the last 3 trolley lines. from the june 1975 issue of motor coach age magazine on brooklyn bus service:
the coney island avenue line was converted using existing buses on november 30,1955, and some of the first of 318 new mack diesels replaced church avenue cars on october 31,1956. mcdonald avenue streetcar service ended on the same day but was not replaced. the balance of the new 6000-series macks were assigned to brooklyn (80 went to staten island)...
although rumor has it that 3 new macks were stashed away in a time capsule at the susquehanna hat company on floogle street. said time capsule is supposed to open on 1-1-2000 to herald in the new millenium. one more thing, i don't think busses is spelled with 3 s's, it should be spelled with 4 s's as in bussess.
The B7 went from Flatbush to ENY again a couple of years ago......
B46M Limited
The 1956 Macks started at 6000, not 5600. Also, they came in green and white (instead of the previous green and silver schemes). The 7000 GM new looks also came in new in green and white. The first new buses to come in the new two-tone green were 9000-9120. I believe both 9000 and 9120 had a red stripe between the two green tones. The light green was a bit lighter in color than the light green used on repaints a year or two later, and light green numbering did not appear those first few years.
A few of the C-49s used in Brooklyn were silver and green, such as 6104. Almost all were two-tone green
The Bingham Macks, #5200-5599, came in new in the green and silver scheme, with a green top. The 6000's of 1956 came in new in a green and white scheme - all of them. They didn't get the two-tone green until the TA started using that scheme about the time the 9000 series GM old looks arrived. As I said in my earlier post, even the 7000 series GM old looks, which arrived after the 6000's but before the 9000's, came in new in the green and white paint scheme. Almost all the 6000's were two-tone green only in their later years, after they had been repainted.
The paint scheme the Macks and GMTDH5106 7000 series came from the factory in....was it green and WHITE or green and LIGHT GREY?
I lived in Flatbush when the 6000's arrived, and I seem toremember them being in a green and light grey upper. Maybe I'm wrong, that was 40+ years ago.
Steve, you are basically right. The 6000 Macks and 7000 GM's came in what I have been calling a green and white scheme. The white was not a very bright white, so it did look a little grey. However, it was certainly white when compared to the silver color it replaced.
Thanks, I didn't remember them being "white" but yes, I do remember them being a LOT lighter than the buses with the silver uppers.
I may have been mistaken too, the photo after all is from 1957
Didn't the Bingham Macks have a grey top and a green bottom?
The Bingham Macks had green bottoms and what looked like silver above the belt. However, the very top (the roof) was painted in the same green as the bottom. I recollect they were called green tops. Some of the 35 foot GM new looks (4000-4499) also had the green top scheme, but not too many. Perhaps some of the 40-footers (4500-4899) had green tops also, but I don't really remember for sure. The other paint scheme that was used back then was the green and silver, with a narrow green stripe above the window line. I suspect most of the 4000 series may have come in new like that. I also believe that is the current scheme of Museum Bus #2969 (the Jackie Gleason bus), which is, in reality, a 40-footer from the 4000 series (perhaps #4567).
If the current Jackie Gleason bus came from the City if it was a 44 passenger bus it was either from Queens in the 2500 and up, or A 1957 7000 OR 1958 9000, There is a slight chance it was a 4500 and up series made in 1949, but those were THD5101s. You would have to check the refgristration or model number to be sure. If it came from 5th Ave Coaches it could have been anything from 2200 and up.
The Jackie Gleason bus is a 1949 TDH-5101 (4500-4899 series), a unique 40 foot model that was only built for the NYC Board of Transportation. The front doors were made extra wide because this bus was designed to drop off and pick large numbers of riders at Queens subway terminals and the St. George S.I. ferry terminal. About 100 of them normally ran in Brooklyn as well, on routes out of East NY depot that were converted from trolley lines in the late 1940's (such as DeKalb Ave.).
The real Jackie Gleason bus shown in the famous publicity shot of the Honeymooners cast is a 1949 model 4509, of which 5th Ave/NYC Omnibus had a large fleet. Unfortunately, none were saved - so the 5101 is the closest GM bus still in existence.
When did the 5101's stop running in Brooklyn? I remember a few of them running with the Macks on the B-8 line in the early 60's.
Probably around 1962 - when most were retired with the arrival of large batches of New Look 5301's in the early 60's. A small number of the 5101's (29, I think) went to MABSTOA routes where some ran as late as 1966. A much larger number of 4510's (from the 4000-4499 series of 35 foot GMs), nearly 300 in all, also went to MABSTOA where they finished their careers.
The last of all the Old Looks, 7000's/9000's, were retired in 1973.7030 was the very last one I ever saw. This came with the arrival of the 62/6300 fishbowls. 6336 was the first I saw the next day which both had been running out of Fresh Pond. (B53, of course).
Thanks. I remember the first GM New Look 5301s as replacing the Mack C-50's on B-41, B-44, and I suppose also B-2, B-17, B-42 and B-46 beginning in the summer of 1960. These new units were numbered from 53 to 190--I didn't see 1 to 52--They probably did not run in Brooklyn at the time. B-41, B-44 and B-46 also used a few 4510s after the Macks were replaced.
There were 2 other groups of GM New Look 5301s--the group numbered 501-805 and the 1001-1130s. I saw the 501-805s on B-10, B-12, B-14, B-20, B-25, B-26, B-38, B-40, B-45, B-47, B-52, B-53, B-54, B-57, B-60 and B-65 beginning around 1960. I think they replaced electric buses, 5101s, and C-50s. The 1001-1130 series replaced mostly GM Old Look 4510s on B-16, B-23, B-33, B-37, B-63, B-67, B-71 and B-75. The 4510s disapeared very quickly from the B-49 route in April or May 1962--they were replaced by the 7000s, with 5301s from the 53-190 series running on weekends.
I want to thank everyone for all the information they contributed on the subject of Mack buses and other such items that bring back memories of that time. And I hope the subject will be revisited here in the future.
I believe new look buses #1-52 did run out of Flatbush depot when they first arrived, along with the rest from that 190 bus order. Eventually, the lower numbered buses from that group (I don't remember if it was #1-52, but that could be) were moved to Manhattan's 126th Street depot, together with #501-530, until the 3600's arrived several years later. The lower numbered buses in the 501-805 order went to what is now Fresh Pond depot. The higher numbered buses went to East New York. All of the 1001-1130 order went to what is now Jackie Gleason. The next order of new looks (#2001-2175) were split between what is now Casey Stengel and Jamaica depots.
If it helps any, I remember when the newlooks arrived, I lived off of Flatbush Avenue & Avenue D. The first one I saw was #27, the first one I rode in was #3 -- and both of these were on the B41.
I also seem to remember that theyhad the Grant "Electrolock" fareboxes, I remember how you could sit right behind the driver and watch the coins go around in a circle then "disappear" somewhere into the farebox. I don't thing I ever saw these anywhere else in NYC, but out hee in California, San Francisco Municipal Railway used them for everything when I first came out here in 1969.
About two weeks after those first newlooks arrived, our family moved out to Suffolk County.
Those fareboxes, if they are the ones I think, did appear on Queens and Steinway Transit. Before exact fare days, there actually was a money changer at the bottom of those things. The machine would sort the coins and then the driver would recycle them to later passengers.
I also remember the low numbered buses being out of Flushing Depot for a while. #69 had a funny sounding horn. With the 2000s, Jamaica got the lower numbers and Flushing the higher numbers. Same with the 3600s. Later on they all got moshed around so that Flushing had the low 2000s and the first of the 3600s.
I always remember 3660-3697 to be assigned to Fresh Pond. Anyone know when they received these. Fresh Pond received 8001-8040 in 1971 from Flushing and/or Jamaica when they received the 4400's. Also #42 was with FP for a while. The color of the serial number on this bus instead of being gold was light green, the same as the Old Looks.
Here are a few more Mack bus memories...
East Side Omnibus had a Mack C-41DT #801. This particular bus had front and rear wide doors! East Side and Comprehensive Omnibus had turnstiles installed on the aisle directly behind the driver. When the city bought the property, becoming the NYCTA's Manhanttan division, they removed the turnstiles but kept the number. #801 saw service with Board of Transportation, City of New York.
Another interesting Mack was C-49DT serial #1017. This bus arrived from Allentown in 1954 in green and cream and labeled for Fifth Avenue Coach Company. Along with the "Go The Motor Coach Way" script. But no fleet number! In 1956 it became Surface Transit #800. Re-labeled and with the "Ride the Surface Way" script. In 1962 it was repainted two-tone green, got the MABSTOA roof-top script and became number 4910.
Lastly, the Mack C-50s, #s2475-2499 of Fifth Avenue became Surface Transit 4060-4084. They kept the Fifth Avenue colors but the numbers were painted in red!
I don't know when those 3600's arrived in Fresh Pond, but all of the 3600's and the low numbers in the 3700's started their lives at 126th Street depot in Manhattan. In 1964, the first year of the New York World's Fair, the lowest of the 3600's went to one of the Brooklyn garages (Flatbush, I think, or East New York) to provide service to the Fair on one of the special routes established there. After the Fair closed that year, they were sent back to 126th Street, and did not return for the 1965 run of the Fair.
I don't know what Fresh Pond received new until 1970 but I remember they always had 650 - 704 or 705 with a few missing inbetween. They also had for many years 1100-1130 and in later years many others from the 1000's as well as buses from 501-805.Interestingly, I did see 649 for awhile around 1970 and the back door had lower windows while just about all TA buses didn't. Also for many years ENY had the lower 500's.
The first of Philadelphia's new look buses (5000-49) were 102 feet
wide and were non-air-conditioned. They entered service on Routes
A, 7, 48, and 54 on March 17, 1963, on Routes 12, 17, and U on
March 24, and on Routes 88, 26, and S on March 26.
The second of Philadelphia's new-look buses (4000-43, transit, and
3900-05, suburban) were 96 feet wide and were PTC's first air-
conditioned buses. They entered service on Route 33 on April 1,
1963, on Route G on April 2, and on Routes J, R, and 5 on April 7.
Routes 44, 45, 55, H, and XH started using them by mid-April, 1963.
102 feet wide? Geez, there aren't any streets in Philadelphia that wide.....
Sorry, just couldn't resist -- I know, they were 102 INCHES wide.
9/19/99
Andy,
So that's why the 5101's had that extra wide front door. I thoughtit was inspired by the wide front PCC door. Is this the only model ever anywhere to have this unusally wide front door??
Bill Newkirk
They had extra wide doors around the same time in Chicago
There was also the TDH5102 from GM which had the double-width front door, but only ONE of those was built -- Fifth Avenue Coach Company 2501. I remember seeing it working the Bx41 in the Bronx in the mid-1960's, thought it was an odd-looking bus!
There was also another one-of-a-kind GM with extra-wide front (AND, rear!) doors -- the TD5401, which was Fifth Avenue Coach Lines 2500. It then went to Chicago Motor Coach , and was joined by 101 similar TDH5502 model buses. I believe the 5401 and 5502 models also had a different window arrangement (more windows) than the 5103-4-5-6 models.
The TD-5401 only had wide front doors. The rear door was the standard size folding doors. This particular bus ended its days working for Westchester Street Transportation. It was destroyed in a garage fire. (It was part of the Fifth Avenue Coach fleet from 1939-40 to 1962. It never wore MaBSTOA colors. However, in the late '40s it operated for the Board of Transportation as a demo before they ordered the TDH 5101s.)
Fifth Avenue Coach's TDH 5104's (#s 2502-2551) did have wide rear door!
The TDH 5502's in Chicago did have an extra set of windows. As well as wide front doors.
One TDH 5101 did have both front and rear wide doors! It also had opening standee windows. Similar to the C-50s "Bingham Macks".
Thaks for the help remembering those wide doors -- I never did see the TD5401, but I do remember 2501 showing up on the Bx41 one day in the early sixties. I was wondering which series had that extra wide rear door, and you cleared that up -- thanks!
As for that one TDH5101 with wide front AND rear doors -- could that have been 4899? Somehow that number sticks in my mind. (Or maybe I'm thinking of a GG-1.....)
Steve,
You are correct, the TDH 5101 with the wide rear door was 4899.
From the street side it looked like a normal TDH 5101. But the curb side was a different story. The wide rear door looked horrible. Not to mention the small window just a head of the door to compensate for the structural changes. And those sliding standee windows did not help!
I never really liked the 5101s. My favorite bus of the times was the TDH 4510. Too bad none were kept by the TA Museum. This was the first 102 inch bus from GM! They looked great in MaBSTOA two-tone green.
Also liked the TDH 5106s in the 2605-2694 series that Fifth Avenue Coach had.
Yes, I liked those last TDH5106's very much too -- but being from the Bronx, my preference would have been the Surface Transit bunch, 3020-3059 which became MABSTOA 3260 and 3221-3259.
The reason for the odd renumbering, as I saw -- the Fifth Avenue/Surface TDH5301's were 3101-3210, then the FACC air conditioned TDH5301's -- 1 through 10 -- became 3211-3220. To make the renumbering easy, and change only one digit on the TDH5106's, they renumbered 3020 to 3260 and the rest got only the "0" changed to a "2". I remember them all running around with an oddball looking "2" in between the original numbers when they were first renumbered.
Did you guys know that the first TDH4510 did not go to New York, It went to the then Los Angeles Transit Lines as 6700 and ran out of the South Central Division 5 Later LAMTA and SCRTD) until 1969. I think but I am not sure, it might have went to the Orange Empire Trolley Museum in Perris Calif. It was the Only 4510 that did not go to NY. The remaining 6700 series of the LATL were 1947 TDH 4507s. Some wound up in Tijuana Mexico in the late 60s. All ran out of div 5
TDH4510-001 did NOT start out life as Los Angeles Transit Lines 6700.
It originally was Pacific Electric Railway #2700.
THEN it went to Los Angeles Transit Lines as #6700.
Under Southern California Rapid Transit District, it was #6500.
It ran around in solid white with just SCRTD logos and numbers during its final years.
(It was also San Pedro Transit Lines #32 for awhile, not sure if that was between PE and LATL or LATL and SCRTD.)
It is NOT at the Orange Empire Trolley Museum.
LAMTA/SCRDT 6500 WAS A 1954 TDH4801. #32 San Pedro was part of the LAMTA-SCRTD, until they renumbered there system in about 1974-75 intgo a grid system. I did not say it was at Orange Empire, I thought it may be. I used to work at MTA=RTD in their Customer Service Until 1993
The TDH 4510 that went to Pacific Electric was serial number 501. The last built. The original number was 2150 and later changed to 2700.
It was built to New York City specifications right down to the horizontal driver stanchion bar separating the driver from the passengers!
Is this bus still with us today? Where?
Correct, it was the very last one of the series.
The GM coach production list I have shows it to have been delivered as 2700 -- could it have been 2150 AFTER that? I cannot confirm this detail.
Not sure if it still exists, but it is definitely not at the Orange Empire Railway Museum which does have some buses.
I also said it may have gone to Tijuana, they always wound up with retired California Busses, and never repainted them. I have not been to Orange Empire in about 7 years. If I have time next month when I am in LA I will try to make it out there
Yeah, lots of the stuff in California goes to Tijuana, that's for sure. When I used to drive tour buses, I'd go into Tijuana two or three times a week so I compiled al ist of everything I could find down there.
Nowadays, they are running a LOT of Flxible Metro's, Gillig Phantoms, Neoplan AN440's and Flyer D900's in Tijuana. Very rarely do we see an new look down there; the old looks disappeared down there about ten years ago!
An acquaintance said last weekend he said a bunch of AC Transit Gilligs from Oakland, California down there. I've also seen a lot of Flxibles from Fort Worth, GM's from Phoenix, and even those ex-Memphis TDH5303's that SCRTD ran in the late 1970's (as their 5375-series buses).
According tot he November, 1981 issue of BUS WORLD, TDH4510-501 wasn't the one numbered 2150.
I quote (from the article, without permission):
"Pitted against 2700 was gasoline-powered Twin Coach 52-S2, numbered 2150. When 2700 won the contest hands-down PE proceeded to order 124 of the five-foot longer model TDH-5103 from GM to complete its post-war modernization."
Apparently there WAS a 2150...but it was the "other" bus being evaluated at the time 2700 (TDH4510-501) was being evaluated by PE.
Apparently when it was built, it had the fluted, bare-metal panels under the windows like some of the suburban old looks at PSC-NJ. A deliveryphoto of 2700 shows this in the BUS WORLD article.
2700 were 1949 TDH5103 were delivered to PE, Stayed same numbers throughout their stay until their end in the late 60s early 70s with the RTD, They ran mostly out of ElMonte on East LA County Routes. 2100s ran mostly out of Ocean Park on the Westside and were 4801s Back to the 2700s and 2800s and the early 2900s. They had cloth seats for the first 10-12 years to the RTD took over and changed them to Vinyl Seats, how unconfortable they came
The TDH5103's at Pacific Electric started at 2701.
The TDH4510 (serial 501) was number 2700, and PE bought it to evaluate it, plus a gasoline-powered Twin Coach 52-S2 (PE number 2150). The GM bus was the better of the two, and PE went on to order 124 of the TDH5103's which became 2701-2824.
I remember riding the Twin Coach which was assigned to Asbury Transit,they had a couple and when the MTA took over in 1958, they ran in the Valley on the Old 14 and 19 Lines. In 1965 MTA bought their 3 or 4th set of Flexibles, both 40 footers and 30 footers which The 40 footers were numbered in the 6500, and the 30 footers started at 4000. They were the first 8s the MTA/RTD bought. I remember riding the 6500s on the old 88 Line from the Valley to Westwood and the Airport, they were loud. The 4000 series always hads problems.
MTA/RTD bought only flexibles from 1964 to 1973, When they bought both GMCs and Flexibles. The numbering on the Flexibles started at 5700 and up. The funny thing was starting in 1968 the numbering of the flexibles was the same number of the year they were built 68-6800 69-6900s etc up to 7600s.
No, they did NOT use the year for numbering the Flxibles until 1970. That is when the 7000 series Flxibles were delivered, until the 7400's came in 1974.
SCRTD's Flxibles were in the following series:
4000-4054 (1964) 30-footers built in Alabama
(4055-4059 came from Pomona Valley Transit System but were basically the same order.)
4200-4224 (1965) 35-footers
(4225-4229 came from PVTS also, basically exactly the same as SCRTD's)
5600-5624 (1965) suburbans
5700-5734 (1962)
5800-5899 (1963)
5900-5999 (1964)
6000-6099 (1965)
6100-6274 (1966-1967)
7000-7099 (1970)
7100-7199 (1971)
7200-7276 (1972)
7300-7399 (1973)
7400-7499 (1974)
I thik it is purely coincidental that SCRTD numbered the 7000-7499 series by the year they were built.
Note there were NO buses numbered between 6275 and 6999 (except GM old looks from years ago). There were NO Flxibles in these series as mentioned in the previous post. The ONLY 6500 series buses were GM old looks. NOT Flxibles. (Nowadays, this series is occupied by Neoplans.)
you forgot the 4300 30 footers in 1973 Picture on page 52 Encyclopedia of Buses by Stauss Where did you get your list of MTA/RTD Busses. I would like to see it
The 4300's were not 30-footers. They were 35-foot buses, model 111DD-D06-1. I was slightly off on the numbers, they were 4300-4341 and delivered in 04/73.
Green Bus Lines and Jamaica Buses had a C-50 demo at one point in the early 1950s.
Does anyone know what the serial number was for this bus? Was it diverted from the NYCTA order? Anything at all?
(When I moved to Miami in 1970 I remember finding a C-50, ex-Miami Transit, diverted from NYCTA, rusting away in a junk yard. When I finally decided to go back and "pick" for collectibles, it was already turned into scrapped!)
WRONG!!!!
S.C.R.T.D. 6500 definitely was TDH4510-501. I rode in it in its last months of operation on line 163 out in the San Fernando Valley. It was solid white, and rode like hell, owing to its spring suspension. TDH4801's rode much better with air suspension.
It most definitely WAS San Pedro #32 at one time in its career.
There was an article about this bus in one of the older issues of BUS WORLD.
Nobody said you were wrong about it being at OETM, I just said it was not there.
The BUS WORLD article about S.C.R.T.D. #6500 (TDH4510-501) is in the November, 1981 issue. Volume 4, Number 1 -- with a Trailways Eagle on the front.
The article is entitled "Goodbye 6500" and details its history.
I was wrong about it being San Pedro Transit Lines #32. It was really #36 at San Pedro Transit Lines. That was after being PE 2700, MCL 2700, MCL 6808, SCRTD 6700. (I forgot about the 6808 number.)
On September 24, 1948, New York's Board of Transportation purchased
the East Side and Comprehensive Bus Companies and began operating
buses in Manhattan. The Board had previously taken over North
Shore Transit in Queens and Isle Bus Company in Staten Island in
February, 1947, and began operating buses in those two boroughs,
as well as in Brooklyn. As a result, the Board now operated buses
in all boroughs except the Bronx.
At the end of 1948, Chicago's Queen Mary double-decker buses,
similar to those operating for Fifth Avenue Coach, were retired
when Chicago Motor Coach (Fifth Avenue's parent company) purchased
new GM TDH-5101 diesel buses numbered from 500-899.
I remember those 5th Ave Double Deckers in the late 40s . My father used to take me on them once in a while when he worked in the Empire State Bldg. The 5 to 168th St, and then we would transfer to a 4 to the Cloisters or the Broadway 100 to Dykeman Street to visit my grandparents in Inwood. I think I once saw a open double decker bus on 5th Ave in the Mid 40s . I do remember some open 3rd Ave Cars near Van Cortland Park, in the Bronx. They were strange for a kid from Brooklyn. how did we get from Mack Busses, to Old Look GMC s to Double Deckers. Somebody start a new topic on old busses. How about the old junky Fago Twin Coaches
Chicago Motor Coach never had any TDH 5101s. What they had were TDH 5502s. These were numbered 500-600 and arrived in 1948. #500 was the demo, serial # EXP 248. They came in the streamlined scheme that CMC and Fifth Avenue had at the time with the roof top script -- "Ride the Boulevard Route".
These buses had wide front doors and 4 sets of full size windows between the doors. They also lacked the traditional emergency door.
They were 42' long and 96" wide. Spring suspension.
These buses were inspired by TD 5401 #2500 of Fifth Avenue Coach. This bus was operated by CMC as a demo.
CMC follwed up the 5502s by ordering TDH 5103s, 40' long and 102" wide, and spring suspension. They were numbered 601-700. And were painted green and cream.
The Omnibus Corporation (now Hertz) owned Chicago Motor Coach and Fifth Avenue Coach.
And since this is a MACK MEMORY post -- CMC also had Mack C-50s.
Steve check out Bus Rosters on the Web scrolled down from NYC Busses. What year did you ride the 163 (aprox) I was working out of the main office for Transit Information plus a few City Ticket offices as a Information Person. I lived in Sherman Oaks and Northridge from 1972-1994 and do not recall any TDH 4500 Models in the Valley. TDH 4801 s, the 2900 Series ran from Day one and ocassionally a 5100 tripper, and toward the end anything went. In 1973 and 74 RTD bought over 200 used busses from Kansas City and Atlanta because they changed the whole system route numbering, by that time most of the pre 1956 busses had been retired, Some were TDH4512s and 51 footers made in 56-58, and 1974 Fishbowls, I don t remember what numbers they were. They kept thenm for a couple of years until there new orders came in. The RTD did renumber them with retired bus numbers, so everything wqas mixed up then Bob
The 6500 (TDH4510-501) was the one and only bus of its type assigned out in the valley. I rode it in 1975 or 1976, when it was solid white. It lasted at SCRTD until 1981 when it was retired, there is an article about this bus in the November, 1981 BUS WORLD.
I did ask some LACMTA people last night of the possible whereabouts of this particular bus, and all they said was "Last time we heard it was at Division 4" which is the maintenance only division next to the I-5 Freeway in Pico Rivera. As I recall, there IS an old look bus parked back there, but that was a couple years ago. Haven't had the chance to see exactly which old look bus it was, but maybe I will drive by there this weekend and see if I can find out.
DC Transit's 5600-series air-conditioned GMC TDH-5105 diesel buses
of 1958, delivered during the summer of that year, were assigned in
such manner that they supply the base on the lines they were used
with no reserves. On certain lines, they supplied only parts of the
base service. Assignments were as follows:
5600-5618--S2-16th Street and J6-Takoma Petworth Express
5619-5623--K2 and K4-Chillum
Both groups assigned ton Northern Garage after September
7, 1958
5624-5634--Western Garage for L4-Connecticut Avenue
5635-5645--Brookland Garage for H2-Crosstown and E2-Rhode Island
Avenue
5646-5656--Trinidad Garage for the Benning line, which uses many
more buses in base service than these
5657-5666-Southeastern Garage for A2, A4, A6, and A8-Anacostia
None of these buses were used to motorize PCC Routes 80 and 82 on
September 7, 1958.
Though I love the concept of naming a bus depot after the Three Stooges, since the Stooges never made a short about (or even a gag with) buses, it doesn't seem too appropriate. It would be nice if Bensonhurst/Coney Island had a park named after these native sons. I also think that Jackie Gleason Depot should be renamed Ralph Kramden Depot. After all, Mr. Gleason probably never rode buses if he could help it and even after all these years, it is Ralph that is the epitome of urban busdrivers everywhere. Perhaps Westside (which is still popularly called by most drivers, Greyhound) should be renamed Gotham, as a further tribute to The Honeymooners. It's also a classy monicker, much cooler than Westside.
By the way, did you know that 54 Street Depot used to be called The Country Club and Hudson Pier used to be called The Nursing Home? (This is because they were such high seniority depots.)
The nick names for the some of the Manhattan depots
are funny. And your point about using Ralph Kramden
instead of Jackie Gleason is also very well taken.
But I'm at a loss at what to do about your noting
that
the Stooges never were bus drivers. It's true, but
it would have been a great short if they ever filmed
it. Moe, the driver, closing the doors on people's
heads and dragging them down the street. Or Moe
solving the problem of people ringing and ringing
for the same stop, by rigging up a length of pipe
that would bang them over the head if they rang more
than once. Howard Depot would be fitting, but to
name some little park on Cropsey Avenue Howard Park
wouldn't do it for me. You mentioned finding some
place in Coney Island, and that gave me the idea of
renaming the beaçh -- Howard Beach. But there is
already a Howard Beach, and the possible confusion
between the two Howard Beaches could be
dangerous.Another possibility would be to use their
real last names of Horwitz and remain the beach
Horwitz Beach. But in the words of one of Jackie
Mason's rountines--- Horwitz Beach would sound too
Jewish. I have to give this more thought. I'd
like to leave you with some reassuring words from Ed
Norton when it looked like he would become Ralph's
boss at the bus depot: Ralph, I just want you to
know that as long as I am a supervisor at the bus
company,you can rest assured of being a bus driver
for the rest of your life... ...................... It's time for me to GET OUT!!!!
Ralph was fictional character. Jackie Gleason grew up in Brooklyn, and Ralph Kramden, the character he is best known for playing, also lived in Brooklyn. They renamed the depot to honor Mr. Gleason after his death. You can't honor a fictional character, it has no basis in reality. Better it be called Jackie Gleason.
-Hank
I suspect Casey Stengel was not a frequent bus rider either.
ralh lived on chauncey street which was said to be in bensonhurst. in reality chauncey street is in bushwick closest to eny depot. i always found this glaring error strange.
This is correct,as the Chauncey St.Station on the J is 2 stops from the ENY Depot at Alabama Ave.Maybe they should rename ENY after Jackie Gleason and call the other one 5th Avenue again
They chose 5th Ave because because as Ralph, he worked for the 5th Ave Coach Company.
-HAnk
But that was Manhattan, wasn't it?
Ralph drove for the Gothem Bus Co. up & down Madison Ave., Manhattan.
Also, Jackie Gleason used Bensonhurst instead of Bushwick for the Honeymooners because it sounded better. That's what he said in an interview once.
is it possible ralph was prejudiced and thus said he lived in bensonhurst rather than bushwick? anyhow how many of you remember his boss at the gotham bus co and his downstairs not upstairs neighbor.
If I'm not mistaken, Jackie Gleason really grew up in Bushwick.
Ralphie boy had two different bosses, Mr. Marshall and sometimes Mr. Monahan.But at home , his boss was Alice. Downstairs neighbors were Manocotti and/or Garrity.
I wonder why they named a Brooklyn Depot after Gleason, Ralph drove a Madison Ave bus, and at that time it was a NY Omnibus and Later 5th Ave Coach Lines. Never a TA Bus
Well, because there were still private operators back then. If the Honeymooners was done now (and I think it would be a failure in today's TV world) He'd probably be working for the TA. If it stayed on the air through the 60s, he'd be working for MaBSTOA.
-HAnk
9/12/99
You mean an aging Ralph Kramden driving an RTS !! YIKES !!
BIll Newkirk
He'd never fit behind the wheel!!
Hi there; I have a two-part question for those familiar with the LACMTA bus system: first, does the two digit number on the lower portion of the right front window near the door signify which division the bus is assigned to? Also, are the divisions the same as when the RTD was running the system? Please let us buffs know. Thank you.
the number on the lower right is the run number, some busses run out of 2 or more divisions. the division numbers are the same as the RTD and Go back as far as the old MTA. LACMTA have decals on the side of the buses telling what division they run out of
SCRTD and LACMTA usually put a small, white number decal on the lower right side corner of the windshielf to denote which division the bus is assigned to.
A couple years ago, LACMTA borrowed some of our 1980 RTS's, and they all came back with an "8" on the windshields.
There is also the "run number box" mounted inside the right windshield on the dashboards, this denotes which bus schedule assignment on its route.
Not sure which ones are which, but there have been some changes to the divisions. Divison 4 and 5 used to be the same location, over near 54th & Slauson. Now, D-4 is a maintenance only yard on Telegraph Road in Pico Rivera (it did have some line 460/462 runs assigned to work out of it, not sure if that situation still exists). Division 3 and 10 used to be combined, off Avenue 26, and they are now separate; one is on Mission Road just east of downtown Los Angeles (not sure which one is which now). Division 8 used to be Van Nuys, in the old SCRTD days but about 15 years ago (approximately) a brand new one was built further out in the San Fernardo Valley in Chatsworth, off of Canoga Avenue. I understand that Division 12 in Long Beach is, or is slated to be, closed. Division 16 in Pomona closed about seven years ago and operations were combined back to Division 9 in El Monte. There maybe other changes as well.
Bus #8120 was in an accident today on Flatlands Ave near Pennsylvania Ave. on the B82. It appears a truck slammed into the back of the bus. The bus is badly damaged in the back. I took pictures of the accident and will add them to my site once they are developed.
Hey Kevin, I have a pictures of RTS #8120 on my TMC page & what time did the bus had a accident?
Peace Out
Meaney
Were there any injuries or fatalities
I only saw TA officials writing down passengers names and taking photos of the bus and the truck. I did not see the accident actually happen.
Good thing the TA knows exactly who was on the bus. Because come Monday morning, 500 people will be calling one of those accident-chasing-attorneys claiming they were on the bus so those 500 can try to sue the TA for negligence!
Too bad it wasn't a Fresh Pond 9500 or 9100.
Why do you dislike Fresh Pond's 9500s and 9100s?
A total of 23 new pictures were added today at TransiTALK in the NYC Bus, NYC Subway, & NJ Transit sections of the page, CHECK IT OUT!
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor Logan
What is a torsilastic suspansion?
DINA and Eagle use it in their buses. What does it have to do with torsion bars?
It is a name that Trailways made up when they began building the eagles. It was a marketing thing.
The eagles use torsions bars or the suspension instead of air rides like GMC, FLX and MCI buses.
They rode nice but they were fussy to set up. The Trailways mechanics knew what they were doing with them. The smaller fleets had trouble getting the hang of them.
Trivia Question
When Trailways began using the Eagles to compete with the Greyhound Scenicruiser the Eagle bodies were built in europe and shipped to Baltimore for final assembly. Who built the bodies and in what country?
Is Eagle still in business?? I could not find their website. Also, for a while I believe, Greyhound also owned Eagle. How come nobody really buys their buses???
Eagle gave up the ghost (again...) a couple years ago.
Greyhound never owned Eagle. Greyhound owned TMC, which built buses under license from MCI. They sold TMC, it became today's Novabus RTS.
You must be thinking of Trailways as the owner of Eagle. Nobody buys their buses because they haven't been made in years.
Trailways owned Eagle until Trailways was bought out by Greyhound Lines of America. Greyhound Lines of Canada owned MCI at the time. When the buyout occured, Greyhound America also acquired Eagle. The only eagles made for Greyhound were the 1989 eagles.
When greyhound filed for Chapter 11 in 1991, they then sold off eagle.
Notice how the Eagles in NJ commuter service look alot like MCI's. This showed that it was boutht out, and both designs were beginning to be merged (also in those later Eagle coaches used by Greyhound/Trailways the front slant in the side window was gone, and some for the first time had one-piece swinging doors.
That's incorrect. NJ Transit used those ugly Eagles with the modified backs since they had the same air-conditioners as those found in their other buses (except the MCI's). The front swinging doors are irrelevant, as those who purchased the bus could choose whether they wanted a one piece or two piece door.
The Eagles were built by Kassbohrer in Belgium. Kassbohrer is now the producer of the Setra tour buses. The production for the Eagles was also known as "Bus & Car".
while coming home thursday night on the b64, i saw #3862 and #3885 in Ulmer Park garage. The driver i was on said they were getting a few of them. i know these buses were from castleton. is ulmer park getting castleton's express buses? i know they lose the X27 line come 9-13-99, and i dont know which express buses they are losing. if anyone can answer me,it be appreicated. thanks.
I saw these buses arrive at Ulmer Park Tuesday past: 3846, 3862, 3866 and 3885. One of the drivers told Ulmer park was short of express buses. Yes, the X27 is going to Jackie Gleason. Ulmer is probably losing some 9200's, which originally were in Yukon.
also seen last week on gowanus heading to ulmer park buses 3867 and 4168 both freshly painted at eny previously from yukon and castleton depots. headed toward eny 3876 and 3877 on vz bridge. it seems 3800 are not headed for retirement any time soon.
Since 3800's are now arriving at Ulmer Park and the X-27 is due to be transferred soon - I guess that Ulmer Park will lose some of the 9200/9300's.
Wayne
JG also got some of the older Express busses from UP. I saw some 7000's sitting in JG yard today. It also look like they just got whatever busses that was just up front. I Thought I was some low 9200;s and high 9200's and 9300's. When I can got a updated bus roster from JG I'll let you know.
Over the weekend, Fresh Pond sent 1982 soft seaters 1846 & 1855 to Ulmer Park.
i just saw #1846 with Jackie Gleason Sticker today on the X27. so i guess ulmer park didnt keep it for long
they were then sent to jg on 9/11/99
saw this Orion at 146th st near the mother clara hale depot in manhattan today with COACH USA on it and the sign saying "Columbia Shuttle" #64023. It looked like what green lines is runnig on the local. is this just a test model or what..help.
The Orion buses that Coach USA were also WMATA rejects. You can find more of them in service at Newark Airport on the Parking Lot shuttles.
I usually like to ride up front so I can watch the
road and watch the driver, especially when he is not
just another driver. I haven't ridden any of the
TA's articulateds, but within the last year, I've
ridden Bee Lines run out of the Bedford Park
Boulevard to White Plains. I seem to gravitate to
the articulated section, and seem to enter into a
contented state. Why? Especially on that run, when
they go into and out of and around the shopping mall
a little North of the city, they negotiate some
neat turns and it's kind of fun watching the
sections swivel. Then on the bumps, I seem to get a
much rougher feel of the road. And probably most
importantly, they remind me of the Mack buses, no
just joking. They remind me of the Triplexes (
which coincidentally happened to be in the 6000's ).
I used to like to stand in the section between the
cars there. And I guess there's a little fantasy at
work of being in the center while the cars are
angled wildly, and when they straighten out you're
in a different world. Sounds spacy, I don't do
drugs, I'm just in an alternate space. Any other
middle joint riders out there? And finally, if
there is another Mack Bus still out there beside the Museums, wouldn't it be a trip to join them back to back and maybe run them on the Grand Central- Times Square shuttle. How's that for a strange consist? I hope this message is still in the early 6000's on the Bus Talk Index.
On the NYCTA New Flyer D-60 I like to sit in front section because it's much quieter since the engine is in the rear section. I usually like to hear the engine, but I don't think the Series 50 engine (as powerful as it is) sounds very good. On the Bee-Line MAN buses I like the rear section because the steering rear axle allows the rear end to "swing" when taking a turn - and I'm sure you know that a slow moving Bell-Line bus is nearly non-existant. They are fun to watch when they are negoiating the turns at Cross County Shopping Center.
Wayne
I like sitting in the rear, espically when the bee-line # 20 white plains bus makes the turn in the cross county shopping mall. it feels like it will do a poseidin adventure. also when it hits a bump or a dip in the road these buses feel like they will take off into space.
Charlie Muller of Bedford Park Blvd Home of the bronx #1 and #2 concourse line and the bronx #26 co-op city bus and home of the bee-line # 20 white plains bus.
I like riding in the middle, over the bellows between the sections It is almost like a amusement park ride.
So that makes two us. I posted the original question and Charlie and Wayne Johnson both said they liked riding the back. From what they said I thought I would need some sort of seat belt or restraints to keep from flying around back there. So when I got my day pass from the loony bin today, I asked if I could take my straight jacket to keep from flying around. ( just a joke, but yeah I know I belong there). Anyway I went up there to check out riding the back, and on the way North I rode the back. It was nice looking down the whole length of the bus and watching it move in waves, but as for the ride I was disappointed. Before we got to the mall, I went to the middle and told a couple of little kids sitting there that I was over 50 and needed to sit here in the middle so that I could have a little fun in my life. I pointed to the sign that said that Little Kids Must Give Up their seats in the Middle Aging Boomers. And let me tell you, it was really fun being in that articulated section. That thing not only rotates on a turn, but the floor kind of pivots over the two hinges on it. On a couple of bumps, you really bottom out. And Subway-buff's description of a amusement ride is right. A couple of other observations. Those buses all have a real noticeable level of fumes in them. The bus I went up on 619, when it was going up a steep hill, down shifted and really roared. I thought we were being passed by a tractor trailer. The way those accordion bellows move, it's a pity you can't use that action to play some music with. There are two lights on the ceiling of the articulated sections, which are 2 small dim bulbs, that have a nice old time feel about them. Over-all I'm going to rate the ride ****1/2*. What kept it from 5 stars were the fumes.
Ah yesh, we've been there and done that, haven't we? That was #1014 on the BX12, IIRC. Yes, sitting in the "Flxible" part of the bus is quite a treat. I like watching the swivel plate in the floor move - kind of reminds me of the D-Type Triplexes.
Wayne
You ever noticed that on the older intercity buses, the front end looks a lot like an old MCI? Prevost, Neoplan and almost ever other company. Today Prevost still looks like an MCI from the front.
Was the "MCI standard" the design for older intercity buses?
There were really three standards, the Eagle's, the MCI's, and the GMC deck and a halves.
The basic intercity front end goes back to the the GMC 4104 or maybe even the 4103 . The vista window on the roof began with the Scenic Cruiser. The Silver Eagle and flxible (I think they called it a highliner) were the next to sprout a vista window but they moved them forward. They showed up on MCI on the MC-6 in 1966 and the MC-7 in 1967. The MC-6 had 2 of them. I am not sure when Prevost began with the vista window but their sightseer bus with the tall side windows of the 70's was a show stopper when it came out.
GMC introduced the 4107 and 4903 in 1966 with the vista window in the front.
In the 80's the roof windows were dissapearing as did many of the intercity coach builders. Flxible quit building intercity buses in the late 60's but sold the tooling to I think Dina in Mexico where they were built for quite a while after production ended in the USA.
Are these two same companies? I ask because Dina seems to be imported by Hausman Bus Inc. Dina is a US based company? I think the name is short for something.
Dina bought MCI a few years ago. Same company nowadays.
http://www.dinamci.com
That URL should say it all.
Hausman is the national dealer for MCI. Used to be a private company but MCI bought them out long ago. When Dina bought MCI they were the Dina dealer too.
dina is a mexican company and as aside to this the local 726 leader several years ago urged the veto of nafta permitting us to import mexican goods. a few years later he was pushing for mci buses actually a mexican product even though built here.
Is really a mexcian-american sort of. Its a bus build here but the company which builds it is own by a mexcian company.
If you have not heard try scrolling down NYC Bus Links tp Bus Rosters on The Web. They hac a roster of Mack C=49s and many other interesting items
Don't know about you but I think that the DD Series 50 are very rough running engines. That much power in a four cylinder seems to be pushing it. Their very noisy too. The Series 60 with six cylinders is much more superior. The Orions in NYC use 300 horsepower and the RTS use only 275. The power seems pretty low for a bus. How much torque does the engines produce? Why does the series 50 DDEC 3and Series 50 DDEC 4 sound so different?
Any NYCTA buses use Cummins engines?
Yes. Fresh Pond's 9140 to 9149 has the Cummings engine. Talk about noise pollution!
Of course the series 50 is going to be a rough engine as far as vibration is concerned because it is 4 cylinders. DD had to do alot of rearanging to this engine because of the lack of 2 cylinders. The series 50 and 60 are virtually the same engine with different twists because of the cylinder issue. They both share the same water and oil pumps, same fuel injectors and similar componets. The series 50 does have counter rotating balance shafts to help reduce vibration. The reason that the newer Series 50's sound different is beacause DD changed the turbo charger. Both the Series 50 and 60 now use a wastegated turbocharger. This setup was found to help reduce emissions. I have documentation from Detroit Diesel about both engines and you can look it up on the net at www.detroitdiesel.com
Peace
DaShawn
Did anyone see a cummins engine? If you did you'll noticed that the radiator cooling fan is located inside the engine carpartment. My question is why did they do this? The fan will force the hot air from the engine through the radiator. Wouldnt it be better if it was put facing the outside?
Its on the left side of the engine.
Where is the radiator for the MCIs? They dont seem to be on the side.
No, the fan sucks outside air through the radiator and then onto the engine.
-Hank
just heard this from a driver today..that there was a rumor that floyd bennet field could become a dept and replace ulmer park,and faltbush,combining both garages? any rumor to this or was he pulling my leg
When i worked in Flatbush last year, supposedly it was to build a temporary depot at Floyd Bennett while they rehabbed Flatbush and got it ready for artics, cause ther's no way artics would make it on the pull in line in its current state.
It would make sence to build a depot at Floyd Bennett Field. Plenty of room. Brian
They should build a depot @Floyd Bennet that can fuel CNG buses in addition to the diesels.
That would make sence. But the Ta does things that doesn't make sence
They can't build a perminent depot at floyd bennit fiels. It has recently been granted full NATIONAL PARK STATUS. While the Ta reconfigues Flatbush for Arcs they should also convert to CNg and clean up all the desil fuel thats leaked into the ground an floating under peoples houses
They shouldn't build a depot at Floyd Bennet Field. They should just rebuild an old hangar.
Rebuilding a hangar would make lots of sense. Brian
Ahh, so this means it's not happening, right?
That's possible!!
True, but if a bus driver can't bring his car to work, how can he get there?
Q 35 ALONG FLATBUSH AVE FROM NOSTRAND SUBWAY TO B 116TH ST ROCKAWAY PK,
He'll have to pay the fare. It's a private route(Green lines).
With some drivers,When I worked for the TA most of the drivers at GBL and QS accepted the TA pass.
That's fine and dandy if the bus operator has bankers hours, but if the guy has to start between 4 and 5 in the morning or finishes his work day at 2 AM, is the Q35 operating then? And if it is, what is the frequency of service?
The Q35 is an all time bus route. I think during the graveyard shift hours it is between 60-70 minutes frequency.......
B46M Limited
Today Orion #6287 on the S74 broke down on Arthur Kill Road. This is not the first 1999 series Orion I have seen brake down since they started coming in. What is the problem with these buses?
I couldn't tell you because they are doing great in Manhattan/Bronx!!
Trevor
from what i hear a multitude of problems. these buses bottom out and stall when they hit any kind of pothole. other drivers feel this orion is the ultimate junk bus rivaling the grumman flxible.
I don't know about that because as Trevor mentioned they are doing quite well here in the MaBSTOA arena. Now as for the Orions in general they are not as sturdy as the RTS. They have weaker frames and are going throught their 3 year upgrades at 207 street instead of East New York because they need frame reinforcement. Also in the very beginning the Orions in the 6000 series here were having wheelchair lift problems due to the pot holes and the lifts were stalling because of the shock and jittering. This is according to some folks out of Mother Hale. As of right now they are operating pretty well. That might be why 6000 was sent back to the vendor and was gone for a while.
Peace
DaShawn
From my experiences riding on the New Orions at Yukon they sound like they are bottoming out when they ride over any kind of bump ( a loud bang). I didnt experience this with the 1996 Orions which are almost all gone from SI. They shouldnt be breaking down; they are at most a month old. Orion might have a problem mass producing buses. At Command they cant keep Orion #4932 on the road; its alway breaking down and has electrical problems. BTW I still dont see any problems with the MCIs which are now 1 year old or will be one year old by December. Still I like the Orions more than the RTS.
I know that familiar sound you are talking about. I experienced that on Friday on #6016 on the M7. I had that happen several times during my trip from 145th Street & Lenox Ave to Union Sq. This bus did not stop running, not once. I have even had that happen on some RTS's over the years. The only time that a bus bottomed out on me was on the M15 3 years ago on a 4300 series at 23rd Street and 1st Avenue. I was told that this occurs when their is not enough air built up in the rear air suspension bags. This came from a few experienced bus drivers telling me this. Well I hope things improve with the SI Orions.
Peace
DaShawn
How's the experience been with the CNG Orions. Some of drivers at LI Bus have been saying they've had some problems with them, mainly stalling (not re-starting) and rear door problems. Sometimes there are so many breakdowns they don't have enough buses.
Lately I've been seeing more breakdowns with them. I'm curious as to how the CNG Orions elsewhere (Jackie Gleason, QS Express Coaches) are doing.
Thurston may disagree with me on this one, but those QS CNG Orions have delayed my return trip home more than a fair number of times; of course this usually happens when I'm working an extra long day.
Well, Shit does happens, but I haven't heard anything here that would lead me to believe that we're unhappy with the equipment.
Please feel free to e-mail me the details off line. I can't be a good salesman for the company unless I know the facts.
BTW, Am using the product tommorow, i.e. taking a Orion Express from College Point to 34th Street.
Disclaimer: I'm not the official spokesman of QSC, but do like my job and won't hesitate to brag a little.
Mr t__;-)
Do you like Detriot Diesel or Cummins engines better?
The DD seems to be more civil producing less noise and pollution.
Cummins seem to produce more noise and some of the older one are
louder than a fighter jet at full throttle.
Cummins produce more power.
DD produce less.
Which is better?
Cummins engines don't always necessarily produce more power than a Detroit Diesel. It depends on the engine model and how it is "set up".
My experience is that the Detroit Series 50 engines are MUCH louder than the Cummins engines in the fleet where I drive. Yet for power,
the Detroit engines have a LOT MORE power.
Do you like Detriot Diesel or Cummins engines better?
The DD seems to be more civil producing less noise and pollution.
Cummins seem to produce more noise and some of the older one are
louder than a fighter jet at full throttle.
Cummins produce more power.
DD produce less.
Which is better?
How about Cat.? Are their units loud?
Both are good engine companies and they offer a variety of horsepower ratings.
DD has quit selling the old 2 cycle engines that were the work horse in transit applications for decades.
Cummins has some nice choices as does DD for transit applications
the 8.3L diesel is a very good choice for transit as is the DD series 50
CAT has not really tried to compete in transit the way Cummins and Detroit Diesel have. The effort shows in the number of engines being delivered.
9/12/99
In the early 80's or late 70's I photographed in Lynbrook,LI sitting in a gas station parking area A Mack bus painted dark blue below the windows with a silver roof with a decal on front between headlights that said "Nassau Police Boys Club". Was this an original Bee Lines Mack bus? And what ever became of it ?
Bill Newkirk
Does the TA keep track of the mileage of each
individual bus? If they do, do they do it from
Hubometer readings, odometer reading from dash
board, or an estimate made on the basis of what
route it was on and how many trips the bus made?
Further, if they record daily mileage, do they
accumulate the total mileage over the life of the
coach? And if they do all this, could they tell
what are the 5 or 10 coaches with the highest
current mileage? And if they answer to the last
question is yes, what are the numbers of the buses
with the highest mileage and what are those mileages? I rest my case....
At this "private" depot the honor goes to the GMC -04 RTS most in that group are almost 500,000 (487, 485, etc.). The MCI's, that do express duty, aren't far behind at almost 400,000 (350 - 385).
Guess it no mystry why our maint. dept can't wait for the hard seat Orions to arrive.
Mr t__:^)
Part #1.
TA takes the mileage off the hub. The mileage has to be put into a key pad near the pumps before it get filled up every day. The mileage is then sent to the forman of the depot every day with the amount of gus it took. The forman also uses it to see witch bus need to be worked on the next day (Brakes, Inspation, etc..) . So I hope this help you.
Part #2
I would guest that the 30??'s have the most mileage in the TA. Thay are the oldest busses in the fleet right now. (other then the hand full of 1800's that still run out of Ulmer Park)
1700s at QV are up there too.
MM2000
If you want to count the private line again-the 1000's at GBL(1979 RTS-2) and the Grumman 870's at JBL
1767 out of QV, which RELIABLY takes me to work every day is close to 250K, at least as far as the dash odometer is concerned.
I would think that the museum Blitz buses have over 400,000 miles as the fishbowl GMC fleet averaged over twenty years of regular service before their trip to Chicago for their last rebuild. That is if you are counting existing buses not in service.
I realize there are variables.. but on the average how many miles can be put on a bus engine/transmission. How often can they be rebuilt-with reasonable cost?
Before the Orions we needed to O/H an engine a week, now it's down to one or two a month. A good engine has a lot of parts inside that can be changed out, i.e. cylinder inserts, so you can save to block.
Transmissions come out of the shop more frequently, but some have lasted as long as 200,000 miles, but that's has a lot to do with our changing the fluid & filter frequently.
Disclaimer: I have just enough knowledge in this area to be dangerious, so I'll leave it to others to provide more detail.
Mr t__:^)
What is the average mileage for a local route each day/week? For an Express route?(I am talking about mileage from when the bus pulls ouit from the depot until the bus returns to the depot after making the final run for the day.)
Does anyone know where the old depot was located?
Why on Steinway Street of course !
Specifically at 20th Ave until Sept. 1988 when both fleets were stuffed into one facility (Queens Transit & Steinway Transit). The building lasted for a while longer in the hands of the Salzberg's.
Mr t__:^)
Steinway Omnibus Company used to operate out of a garage at 20th Avenue and Steinway Street. The operation was merged at the Queens Transit garage in College Point when Bob Burke took over operation of the two companies and formed Queens Surface Corp. in 1988. The Queens Surface Garage, by the way, has been replaced with a brand new garage at 28th Avenue, between Ulmer and College Point Boulevard.
There was also and OLD, old Steinway garage that included the operations of the Queens Borough Bridge Railway (and Steinway's trolleys) ... that was at 5100 Northern Boulevard. The landmarked entrance to the garage can still be seen (incorporated into a sign for the shopping mall at that site.)
The building (Woodside Carbarn) at 51st Street and Northern Boulevard was originally built for the New York and Queens County Railway (look at the top of the entrance door in the preserved section that exists today), but after certain of its routes (the Steinway Lines) were split off due to financial problems in the 1920s, the barn housed and maintained both the NY&QC and Steinway Lines cars. The Queensborough Bridge Railway began operations in 1939 after the NY&QCR and SL trolley routes were converted to buses. The Woodside Carbarn never serviced or stored the QBR cars; this was done either by the Third Avenue Railway System or in the underground facility of the QBR terminal at 59th Street and Second Avenue (which still exists today). After the NY&QCR and SL trolley routes were converted to bus operation, Woodside Carbarn was used to service and store buses of the Queens-Nassau Transit Lines (later Queens Transit Lines) and Steinway Lines until it was sold to a shopping mall developer, who agreed to save the the front entrance of the structure and incorporate it into the shopping center only on the day it was about to be demolished. I am currently completing work on reprinting and updating Vincent Seyfried's 1950 book on the NY&QCR, SL and QBR trolley routes. It is expected to be released next year, and will contain hundreds of never-before-published quality photopgraphs, along with Vincent's text and maps.
"The Woodside Carbarn never serviced or stored the QBR cars; this was done either by the Third Avenue Railway System or in the underground facility of the QBR terminal at 59th Street and Second Avenue (which still exists today)."
In the 30s, just before bus-substitution, Third Ave owned the trolleys that Steinway "operated", but I thought Nassau-Queens(Queens Transit) owned the Queensboro Bridge Ry, or was it an operator too ?
"I am currently completing work on reprinting and updating Vincent Seyfried's 1950 book on the NY&QCR, SL and QBR trolley routes."
That's something to look forward to ! I have the re-print of his book on Queens lines, basically BRT ... lots of detail.
Mr t__:^)
Queens-Nassau Transit, according to my information sources, owned and operated the QBR. However, again, the trolleys were never serviced at Woodside Carbarn after the Steinway Lines were abandoned. Right after the final Steinway abandonment, on November 1, 1939, brand new 650-655 series Third Avenue Railway System cars were used for about a 6-month period on the QBR while the Third Avenue Railway System rebuilt six of the 500-series cars for continued service on the QBR (these were later replaced by the ex-Union Street Railway Osgood-Bradley Master Units). But the most amazing thing is that on the very last day of Steinway Lines operations, the Steinway Street route used a number of the new 650-series TARS cars in regular service to train the QBR motormen. I have what are believed to be the only known photos of these cars actually operating on Steinway Street, and they will be in the upcoming book on the New York and Queens County Railway/Steinway Lines/Queensborough Brisge Railway.
The history of the trolley/bus lines is Queens is very complex and interesting. The more I learn the more trails I find leading to new topics.
Your detail begs another question:
- 1932 the Salberg's took over N. Y. & Queens County Ry/Nassau-Queens which shortly thereafter got it's first bus route, the Q25, but still had a extensive & mainly private ROW trolley operation.
- 1939 Steinway ends trolley service. It re-imerged as Steinway Omnibus, but wasn't acquired by Salberg until 1942. So Steinway bought a bus company ? From 3rd Ave ?
- Didn't 3rd Ave continue to operate trolleys across the 59th St bridge (on different tracks from Queensboro Bridge Ry) until 1941 ?
Mr t__:^)
Jackie Gleason and Ulmer Park have been getting the 30??'s from Fresh Pond over the last couple of days. I am not looking forard to driving them. If I remenber correty is that some of these busses are junk. I even thought I saw one that still had the old hard blue non air seat OUCH!!!! I hope that Jackie Gleason will get rid of them as the New FLyers come in.
Anybody can tell me where the Queens private bus companies are located? Thanks
B46M Limited
I would prefer not to see the Queen's Privates. She's old, and after all, they're private.
-Hank :)
Slam Dunk!
And in the words of my late Uncle Herman :: "Balls said the Queen, if I had them I'd be King
Very funny. What I meant to say was where are all the Queens Private bus companies located? I have only seen one company, Jamaica. I saw it heading down Brewer Blvd house hunting with my sister.......
B46M Limited
Triboro, Green, & Jamaica have Web sites where you can see their address, routes, phone#, etc. Queens Surface address was in the "Steinway" reply.
Mr t__:^)
Thanks for the info Thurston..........
B46M Limited
TRIBORO IS ACROSS FROM LAGUARDIA. THE Q 33 FROM JACKSON HTS TAKES YOU THERE
You've been told before, STOP POSTING IN CAPS!!! Now, can't you see how annoying they are? You also seem to shift your eyes (the letter, not the visual organ) making them lowercase.
Updated to Sept 9,,read it
Steve
9/14/99
While visiting Hoboken yesterday I saw an Academy RTS #83 at a distance. What caught my eye was the window placement,sliding and solid windows alternating like the NYCTA. Closer inspection while walking in from of the parked bus I saw blue fiberglass seats in the 2-1 configuration. This has to be an ex-NYCTA bus. Anybody have and info about this and what series it may have come from ?
Bill Newkirk
They're from the 1700 series and they have a few 1800s( some soft seaters).
I rode the Academy bus from Hoboken Path to a friend's flat at the North end of town. Also, rode one from there thru the Tunnel to the PABT. Next time you are on one of those little beauties, check the registration tag, mounted somewhere in the driver's position. If you ask nicely, he or she may allow you a closer look. You will be able to see the model number and year, thereby establishing some link to parentage. (Diesel husbandry?)
According to the UTC Roster, these are the ex-TA buses that are running with Academy: 1668, 1671, 1676, 1683-1684, 1701, 1708, 1710 (#82), 1715-1718, 1721, 1730, 1783, 1790, 1802, 1806, 1851
just saw #1016 RTS with Academy Bus logo on lexington av today. is that one of the numbers from up top,or a new one..looked new to me.
A new one.
9/18/99
I breezed by Academy in Hoboken today. I saw those new 1000 series RTS's. also I saw the second hand NYCTA ones. A couple I saw still had their blue stripes on,although the lettering was painted over. By the top front destination sign the amber emergency lights were removed and new numbers are affixed. I also saw the NYU buses (purple stripe) which I know were from out of town,not New York City.
If anybody could shed light,provide info about these RTS's,you're most welcome.
Bill Newkirk
there ts one i believe g5114 with a sutran ac unit on the roof. possibly these were philly buses as well as some academy uses to csi in staten island
The buses Academy is using for the CSI loop bus service are T806, and thus can't be former NYC buses. They also have driver-operated rear doors.
-Hank
yes they have touchbar operation as all rts except nyct has. you touch rear bar after driver releases interlock to open door. these are the type philly and dc had so they may possibly be from either of those systems. just a guess.
The 1000 series buses are technically NJ Transit buses, since NJT purchased them and Academy leased them.
Academy purchased a number of retired TA buses to enhance their fleet when they took over the Hoboken-New York line from Red Apple (don't know what happened to their Grummans -- they just disappeared).
Academy also has a number of their own RTS-02's or 03's (I don't think they're slopeback, though).
In addition to RTS, Academy/#22 also has several Flxible Suburbans and Grumman-Flxibles leased from NJ Transit.
9/19/99
Vartan,
That's why there was no Red Apple buses in that Hoboken lot yesterday. So the company went belly up I guess. DAMN! I should have photographed them while they were still running!
Bill Newkirk
First a question about the MANs on the #20. I assume the airconditioning unit is in the rear of the bus. Why do they make so much noise? Are they electrically driven or is there is a separate engine driving them? As much as I enjoy riding the middle, the smell of fumes is bad there.
Yesterday, I went up to 207th St, and rode a TA articulated for the first time. I was riding the middle section on the BX-12, and although the bus did not have that overall smell of fumes, in the middle section it was noticeable. Is the exhaust located in the middle of the bus? The BX-12 is very heavily travelled, so it didn't compare to the 20's acrobatics at Cross County. I am sensitive to chemical fumes, and after a while I went up front and sat behind the driver, but I found that I was right in the middle of a blast of really frigid air. But the driver was talking with another driver about handling the buses, so I just buttoned up my winter coat and listened. Is it always that cold and that strong of an air current up front when the a.c. is on?
The MAN artics have the engine located under the floor of the front section, driving the center axle. The New Flyer artics have the engine at the rear of the bus, driving the rear axle. It has what they call an 'active joint' at the articulation poit, which, if working properly, locks up on acceleration to prevent fishtailing. Since they've already made it through 2 winters in NY, I'd say it works pretty well. Both models have roof-mounted A/C units over each section.
-Hank
Thanks Hank. But two questions. What do you mean by "locks up" , I've heard that expression before. What does it mean and what actually happens. If the ac units are roof mounted on the MAN's, then what is making all that noise in the back of the MAN's?
I appreciate the info.... Paul
The man articulateds have a seperate diesel generator for the HVAC unit which is in the rear section of the bus and they have a small exhaust pipe in the rear I think but can't recall at this time. The New Flyer D60's also have roof mounted HVAC units which use a similar config to all other buses with the compressor being powered by the main engine and not an auxilary unit like the Man units. Also the exhaust fans for the HVAC units on the New Flyers are in the rear like other buses while the Man's have a rear window.
Peace
DaShawn
lets not forget these buses went through two of the mildest winters in nyc history. the real test still awaits.
As I understand, the joint has a hydraulic system that 'stiffens' the joint, making the bus more solid, and preventing the tail (where the power is) from sliding around. I believe that Artics are the perfect bus to make into hybrids, as you could put an electric motor at each wheel, and you don't have to worry about traction problems. A low floor is even more perfect, as you won't need drive axle componants that give you those strange rear-end shapes and high rear platforms.
-Hank
Also - The Bee-Line MAN's now have roof mount A/C units over both sections, but they were retrofitted with these units a few years ago. They originally had their A/C units at the rear.
Wayne
I get around mostly on a bike. When I do ride a bus, it's either for fun or because it's raining or bitter cold. But I spent a major part of my youth either waiting for ( mostly that ) or riding on the B49. Anyway, I know the TA has been doing a lot on the subways to improve passenger flow at the subway stops. Let the passengers off first, painting zones on the station for people to stand clear of to allow exiting passengers to exit. What is the problem with the buses? Have they just accepted that people will exit from the front? But let's go back, don't a lot of people exit front because they're uncomfortable with the rear doors? I noticed that the MANs have a regular opening rear door, you don't have to push on tapes or press hard. Since the rider's are customers, and they don't seem to feel comfortable or safe with the current doors, what has the TA done? Have they ever asked customers about their preferences? Have they ever experimented with a regular door on one of the buses, and compared running times against the regular door? Also, if I'm not mistaken, the PCC's in Newark Subway have a front entrance that can almost handle people going out and people going on at the same time.
It just seems that there is a lot of congestion going out the front door. Have they ever considered encouraging customers to go out the rear by putting a little brass ring dispenser like they have on the Carousel at Coney Island? Get a red ring and get a free ride, within the next two hours.
My take on this is that people got away from using the rear door when the 1981 RTSs came in with that heavy rear door and no touch-tape (to activate the semi-automatic rear door). By 1983, when the first touch-tape-equipped rear door RTSs came in, it was too late. This has contributed to a reduction in overall bus speed, as dwell time at stops has increased. The situation has been exacerbated by MetroCard, which has slowed boarding considerably (the ard's great in most respects, though). There are very few non-touch-tape equipped rear door RTSs anymore, and the Orions and New Flyers have a lighter rear door (with a touch tape), but people are now in the habit of using the front door.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying David, but from a dwell time viewpoint and also a general courtesy viewpoint, isn't it easier and faster to have people go through the rear? At times the TA seems interested in cutting costs, isn't that one of the reasons for running articulateds? Before the RTS's they had the push door in the back. If I remember that was supposed to have the safety factor that the driver couldn't close the doors if someone was exiting. But back to the present, would it make a difference in time if passengers exited from the rear of a bus which had a door that people felt comfortable with. Even now with the touch tape powering, I still feel a littlel uneasy that it won't open for me especially if I'm first on the door and the other passengers will be annoyed at my incompetence. Why not have a door that opens like on the MAN's? I'm not directing my annoyance at you Dave. I just don't understand. Habit is a very powerful thing, but couldn't an appeal be made that speed of getting to your destination is important also. Or how about some common courtesy? I know years and years ago, the driver would really be annoyed when people when through the front. I guess I'll just stay on the bike and try to stay out of the way of the motoring public. Paul
I agree completely, but despite all the signs and posters directing people to the rear/"center" door, people don't go. Incidentally, back in 1983, when the first touch-tape-equipped buses arrived, I thought it was a nifty "toy" that wouldn't function as designed for very long, but by and large it's pretty reliable.
David
[Yeah, I hear what you're saying David, but from a dwell time viewpoint and also a general courtesy viewpoint, isn't it easier and faster to have people go through the rear? At times the TA seems interested in cutting costs, isn't that one of the reasons for running articulateds? Before the RTS's they had the push door in the back. If I remember that was supposed to have the safety factor that the driver couldn't close the doors if someone was exiting. But back to the present, would it make a difference in time if passengers exited from the rear of a bus which had a door that people felt comfortable with. Even now with the touch tape powering, I still feel a littlel uneasy that it won't open for me especially if I'm first on the door and the other passengers will be annoyed at my incompetence. Why not have a door that opens like on the MAN's? I'm not directing my annoyance at you Dave. I just don't understand. Habit is a very powerful thing, but couldn't an appeal be made that speed of getting to your destination is important also. Or how about some common courtesy? I know years and years ago, the driver would really be annoyed when people when through the front. I guess I'll just stay on the bike and try to stay out of the way of the motoring public. Paul]
If your used to the passengers exiting through the center doors only, Pittsburgh will confuse you totally. Both entering and exiting is done through the front doors only in all areas except the Downtown area where both the center and front doors are used for both boarding and departing prior to 7pm.
This system works, believe it or not, and really doesn't seem to delay the running time unless you have a wheelchair that needs loaded or unloaded and that only adds a couple minutes total usually and the time is made up by the end of the run.
RDChilds
I Live In Tempe Arizona(Phoenix) And Valley Metro Transits Policy says "If there are 3 or more passengers at a bus stop all passengers MUST exit thru the rear door, Except bike on bus passengers who will exit thru front door." All Operators enforce this by not opening the front doors and opeing the rear doors automatically only (Drivers have position on door switch that will open the rear doors without passengers pushing door.)
I am a former Employee of Valley Metro Transit In Phoenix, Az
9/14/99
While the 1981 hard push exit door was a displeasure to most riders,let's not forget the steep stepwell which may have something to do with the wheelchair lift. The steps are short and steep which slows people from exiting quickly. Didn't have that problem with the old GM new looks and old Flxibles.
Bill Newkirk
"Also, if I'm not mistaken, the PCC's in Newark Subway have a front
entrance that can almost handle people going out and people going on at the same time."
The PCC cars have double stream front doors that will allow passenger to enter and exit. Also double rear doors that are treddle controled, when you step into the stairwell the door opens.
Does the PCC operator collect fares in Newark or is there a turnstyle at the station entrance?
The fares are collected on board, but in an intersting manner. The fares are collected in the standard manner, on entry on Penn Station (the REAL Penn Station, not Madison Square Garbage in New York) bound cars. On Franklin bound cars, the fare is collected ON EXIT!!! This allows a 45 cent fare to be collected between Penn and Warren (the subway section). According to 7-City Subway Line-by-Line on this site, there is a platform fare collector at Broad Street (I think) I don't know how that works. All of this will die soon, as the subway is switching to POP (Proof Of Payment).
How does proof of payment work?
You need a pass or valid ticke that you buy from a machine at the station. The operatror does not check or collect it but roving inspectors go through the cars. If you do not have a valid pass or ticket you get a citation for a stiff fine. It's like an honor system with teeth.
During the afternoon rush hour (4-7:00 PM), the fares are collected on entry in both directions. This is because the $.45 downtown fare doesn't apply during this time.
During this time, the outbound fares at Penn Station and Broad Street are collected by a fare collector before boarding (at the subway concourse at Penn and the platform at Broad).
When Philadelphia's 4 remaining Market Street trolley lines (17, 21,
32, and 36) were converted to one-man operation on June 20, 1954,
pay-leave fare collection was required on their outbound runs. All
4 lines operated with remodeled 8000-series cars.
When Philadelphia's 4 remaining Market Street trolley lines (17,21,
32, and 36) were converted to one-man operation on June 20, 1954,
pay-leave fare collection was required on their outbound runs. All
4 routes operated with remodeled Peter Witt 8000-series cars. In
addition, Public Service used pay-leave fare collection on its runs
from Philadelphia to South Jersey with passengers accepted on
Market, Broad, and Race Streets.
Chicago trolley Route 54-Cicero Avenue was unique because it ran
one-man cars on weekdays and buses on weekends and holidays until
the line was converted to trolleybus operation on November 25, 1951.
Hello, again; Now that we know about the removal of the Turnstile lockout, how will it affect usage on the bus? For instance, will a person be able to use the card within 18 min. on a branch of the same bus line, (e.g. M14, or M15), or in previously restricted corridors in Manh. and the Bronx,(e.g.) M27/50,Bx.40/42)?
You still won't be able to board the SAME route twice with a unlimited MetroCard for 18 minutes ... and ... I don't think anything was done to lift the restriction on doing a u-turn between buses, i.e. the free Transfer (from a Value MC) is for a continued trip, e.g. North plus East or West.
Personaly all these rules that tie some routes, but not others don't seem to make since anymore, i.e. why should a value MC not have the same transfer benifit that a unlimited customer gets ? I still prefer the value MC, but have a bunch of unlimited "Fun Passes" because it's the cheepest way to buy a graphic card for my collection.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston: the directional restrictions, as you describe,were never really(Thank God) instituted in the transfer allowances, EXCEPT WHERE NOTED, for certain corridors, which I enumerated in a later post.
Thanks for the input ... I do appreciate it !
Here is the whole list 9257-9299 also1846 1855 3099 3825 3846 3847 3862 3867[bad bus] 3878 3885 3916 3965 4497 that's all of them.
Here is the whole list 9257-9299 also1846 1855 3099 3825 3846 3847 3862 3867[bad bus] 3878 3885 3916 3965 4497 that's all of them. seeya
Is the x25 going to JG along with the x27? I just saw 9264 on the x25 (3:40pm run from Battery Place to GCT?) with a Gleason sticker on the right front, and an Ulmer Park sticker on the left rear -
Yes the 25x and 27x are both in JG .
The best part is that UP has to service the coaches that are at JG.
[Yes the 25x and 27x are both in JG .]
The X25 is served by runs on the X27 (JG) and the X29 (UP).
[The best part is that UP has to service the coaches that are at JG.]
Huh? Please elaborate.
David
NYC Bus and Various NYC DOT rosters have been updated at TransiTALK!
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
My question involves the bus company Dina.
Is the correct pronouncation Dina with a long I?
Some people told me that it was pronounced Deena.
Which pronouncation is correct?
The "Deena" version is correct. It is a Spanish-language name, and in Spanish, "i" is pronouned "eeee".
It is actually an acronym....DINA, Dieseles Internacionales Norte Americana. The name makes me wonder if they didn't have something to do with something in SOUTH American at one time or another, though.
(I have seen the DINA name spelled out inside some buses in Mexico on
the builder plate...that's how I know.)
One of the contributions from NAFTA, no doubt. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of "Mordern Intercity Coaches"
from. All bookstroes seem to be either out or don't carry it.
Have you tried amazon.com (by the way there is a link on this site)
Transit Museum shop at GCT has them. Ask!
-Hank
I was wondering if anyone ever heard of the MTA changing the placement of an existing bus stop down the block or across the street?
MTA doesn't move thestops; they make recommendations, or the DOT places the stops along the route. The City DOT is responsible for all bus stops and the equipment associated with them.
-Hank
I remember during the decade long construction on Utica Ave, there was a bus stop on CrownSt/Utica Av. Now there is one on Carroll St/Utica Av. This was good because the other north/south routes in the neighborhood (B43,44,48,49 have their bus stops at Carroll St). Also the bus stop was moved across E. Parkway (KP bound) for better connections to the B14 and B17. There was one NW corner of Utica and E. Parkway but have been moved to the SW corner due to the Limited service and trying to keep the dollar vans out the way...........
B46M Limited
That was smart to move the bus stop to keep the vans out of the way. The next step is to get rid of them permanantly. Brian
What are some of the closest bus stops in the city?
Most are three blocks apart.
The closest one I can think of is on the Q28 line near Francis Lewis Blvd. It has to be about 60 feet apart. The driver would stop at the first one and let the bus slowly roll to the second. Good think the TA got rid of the second one.
I know the B14,15 and 20 have two bus stops close to each other on Linden Blvd. Probably due to the fact that the B14 turn off at the corner........
B46M Limited
The southbound M5 used to stop on 72nd Street just before turning onto Broadway, and again after turning about half a block down.
The eastbound M66 stops (stopped?) on both sides of Broadway/Columbus Avenue. The westbound M66, at various times, has stopped east of Columbus and west of Broadway and has stopped between Columbus and Broadway and west of Broadway. (I'm not sure what's done now or which postdates which.)
Come to think of it, many routes treat Broadway and an avenue as separate streets even where they cross and stop on both sides. (I think the M34 and M42 do this.)
While sitting at home with my TrunkTracking scanner, I was hitting on a particular talkgroup. There appears to be a couple of folks out there - one riding on a bus and other somewhere else conducting some kind of test on the vehicle locator system that supposed to run on the routes out of 126 Street Depot.
One guy would ask,"Where are you now?"
The guy on the bus would reply,"Just passing Houston." (pronouncing it like the city in Texas so I know these giuys are out of towners!)
Every couple of minutes the guy on the bus would would mention where they were. Asked if they were going to City hall or South Ferry on this trip, so obviously they were doing a test on the M15.
The guy not on the bus asks which way they are facing and the guy on the bus says they are sitting in the layover area at South Ferry.
This continued as they went uptown. At 57 Street, they hung a left then I got bored with it. I would assume by turning onto 57 that they were going to test the M57 and/or the M31 as well.
If you have a TrunkTracker scanner and you have the TA 800 mhz system in it, punch up talkgroup 11216 during the day and maybe you'll hear them.
Suggest those interested in many interesting items log on to eBay Search, and do a "Seller Search" for "JoePCC699@AOL.com". Very varied and many times extremely rare items, primarily from North America and Western Europe, are being offered. Shipments can be made internationally.
I recall that Over the road (OTR) buses were low level buses- somewhat resembling transit bsues except only one door and the luggage compartment. I recall greyhound ahd the Scenicruiser with 3-4 rows of seats low then the rest high level. Now all OTR buses are high level. When did this start and what is the benefit to the operators (drivers. maintenance, and owners["suits"])?
Here's what, Comfort, Better Ride Height-Better Overall Ride, More Options, Better Driver View of Front, Just compare a Orion or RTS Suburban to the new MCI DL3 Cruisers and you'll see the difference and that the MCI is a better Express-type coach thus the better OTR!
Trevor
There were some models that were the same height as transit buses. They were 35-feet long and 96 inches wide. MCI had produced the MC-5 which was basically the little brother to the MC-7. MCI also produced the MC-5B & C which looked like smaller versions of the MC-8. Greyhound had many MC-5's, but I never saw any MC-5B/C's at Greyhound. GM also produced smaller intercity coaches. The latest were the PD4104 and 4106 models. These were also 35 feet long and 96 inches wide. I think the benefit was that it was a smaller bus that could be used when a 40 foot bus wasn't necessary.
Wayne
Peter Pan had MC-5c's in Springfield area express bus service. A bunch of MC-5c's had been made for Saudi Arabia, and 11 years ago, these showed up on New York Airbus. These have 6 cylinder engines (no MC-8 or below have this), and may still be running (saw one a few months ago).
Las Vegas Transit also got some (five or six) of the ex-Saudi Arabia MC-5C's, two-door versions at that. They even had a water cooler/fountain in them behind the driver! They were in service until the City of Las Vegas/County of Clark took over the entire operation and it became "Citizens' Area Transit" and only the stuff bought brand new by the city/county stayed.
Greyhound Taseco (not sure about what the Taseco stood for) was the name of the Arabian operator; Greyhound actually had the contract to set it all up and run it for a few years, and then it was not renewed, so all the buses came back to the USA. There were single- and double-door MC-5C's, and a small number of MC-9's. They all had the double-panel rooftops so the sun wouldn't bake the crap out of whatever was inside the bus over there in Saudi Arabia.
At SUNY-University at Buffalo, they have MC5-C's with a two piece front door and a to piece back door. These buses are operated by Blue Bird Coach Lines (Owned by Coach USA) for service between the North campus and the Suth Campus.
Most of the two door MC-5C's were alumni of Saudi. The 4104, 4106 and MCI 5's are slightly higher than a transit bus to allow for the baggage compartments.
The 1406 shared the upper body with the new look transit buses The rear roof and side windows were identical to a 4517, 19, 21, & 23. The front cap and door were different.
The Scenicruiser, MC-6 MC-7 etc. were developed by Greyhound to haul passengers and package express. In the 70's and 80's they also built some of the above in to "Combo buses that had a side door installed the rear. A bulhead was installed inside the bus to partition off the cargo area in the rear from the passenger compatment. The high floor also gave better access to the engine, and transmission that were entirely under the floor and no longer under the back seat. The advantage for the passengers was better views and less noise in the passenger compartment.
I still dont think that there has been a better seat built than the front row in the upper deck of a Scenic though. What a ride.
Wanna know the BIGGEST reason for the buses gaining height?
BAGGAGE SPACE!!!!
Yes, it has a LOT to do with more baggage space. As buses got longer, and therefore carry more people, more room for baggage is needed.
I know, y'all will say "who carries baggage on NYMTA express routes?" or "who carries baggage to the casinos in Atlantic City?". Well, the buses are built for many purposes, and the biggest one is carriage of tour groups -- i.e., that's why they are usually referred to as "tour buses". And tourists, as we all well know, carry TONS of baggage.
Well, the TA buses are basically 'off the shelf' They are also on a 7-year lease, and unless the TA purchases them at the end of the lease, they may be resold to other carriers.
-Hank
Well guess what, NYCT will be keeping those at the end of the lease! I found out today!!!!!!!!!!
SO OH HAPPY DAY!
Trevor
A happy day indeed! It just makes sense to keep them. These buses are really needed and if leasing them before purchasing them was the best option then excellent!
Peace
DaShawn
I have started a new transit forum for Memphis (TN) Transit on Deja.com
URL: www.deja.com/~memphis_transit
It is unmoderated. flaming is to be avoided and open for any transit dicsussion-- rail or bus or trolley, future light rail or whatever
It is my hope that someone (NOT ME) will start a web site for MATA. I know there is no current official or unofficial site for MATA.
Saw this bus operating on Q60 ths morning. If I'm not mistaking, it looks like it has tinted windows. I know it came from Command, but maybe it's the former 351-356 series, but they had computerized destination signs? Anybody knows what Green Buses 623-658 used to be at Command, please email me. All I know was that 641 used to be Command 393. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
MM2000
351-356 were the only ex Commands with tinted windows. Check out the seats inside the bus. 351-356 had soft seats. Also look to see if there is a wheelchair lift. 351-356 did not have lifts.
Saw this bus on Q25 yesterday in Flushing but something was mighty different about this bus. Reasons:
1. it used to have aluminum wheels- now it has steel wheels, was a weird site in my opinion and
2. it was shrink-wrapped in the rear.
Anothere weird site: 383 was on Q65. the left front wheel was aluminum but the others were steel.
MM2000
There has been a field trip planned for October 2nd for some bus photography,
For full information, refer to TransiTALKs Field Trip page at:
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/FieldTrip.html
I hope to see you there!!!
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
Webmaster
What was the Q-100 route. Where did it run and when was it discontinued?
Can anyone supply the routings,including the end of line turnaround routings
Thank you
Steve
I saw the front of this bus and replacing the large MTA logo on the front it has this thing covering it with a small MTA logo on the thing. Could someone tell me what this thing for and why is it there? Thanks.
Peace Out
-Clayton
That is a signal premption sensor, it sends signals to light to turn green for approaching bus, about 10 other 8200 series TMC RTSs have them out of Manhattanville!
Its a test system right now!
Trevor
Actually, it's a leftover from the test of the distance radar. The signal preemptor is on the roof.
-Hank
I've had a few, here in NY, in Boston, and Philly.
Without saying where or when , we were going through
an industrial area with a lot of vacant lots. A guy
in his 30's gets on, and walks to the back without
paying. The driver waits, and then tells the guy to
pay. He doesn't and this goes on for a while, and
the driver tells the guy to get off. The guy who is
now standing near me, pulls out a box cutter, and
some more bad mouthing ensues. I don't feel like
being a injured hero and doing something, so I just
sit there very worried. The guy starts walking to
the front, and on his way down the stairway, the
driver sends him flying out the bus with the
aid of his foot. Nobody said anything, and we
continued on. Anybody have any interesting
stories?
The scariest moment(s) that I seen on a bus was when I was in high school. Both of these moments were on the B6, ENY bound. The first occurred at the Junction on "Freshman Day". The bus usually is pack at this stop. These two Jewish kids got on the bus a couple of stops before. These guys came on the bus started to go in the pockets of one of the Jewish kids. The kid started screaming to get attention but his friend left and try to go to the back of the bus. A bottle followed him to the back of head.. After the bus started to leave, an upset passenger began to scream at the bus driver for not doing anything for the kid......
The second was around Halloween. We come to the bus stop at Albany and Glenwood and see a bus with police cars around. EMS was also there. Everybody peeked into the other bus and saw that EMS technicians was attending to a girl who had the bus window open and got hit with a hardboiled egg.
I have a couple of more stories.........
B46M Limited
When I was still in high school, I was on the s53 on my way to Brooklyn. Halfway across the VZ, a knife fight breaks out in the back of the bus. A young mother grabbed her 2-3 year old and ran to the front of the bus. The funniest part of this was the kid was eating an ice cream cone. Mom has him over her shoulder, and the kid is just hanging there, eating his ice cream, totally oblivious.
-Hank
Well going off a violent note, I experinced the pleasure of being on a broken kneeling mechanism bus!!! Over packed bus caused the bus to have the bus not go up after going down. He shut the engine off for like 30 secs but that didn't do anything. We waited for about a half-hour for the next bus. It was pretty scary when my teacher started to question me on why I was late!
Peace Out
-Clayton
Scariest moment for me on a bus had nothing to do with crime or typical obnoxious passenger behavior.
It was an extremely dangerous traffic situation.
Spin the clock back to 1975.
I was riding on Walter's Transit (Express bus service from 41st & 7th Ave to Brewster, NY) in an early 1960s Fishbowl with 4 speed manual tranny and 6V71 engine. Not exactly a powerhouse built for acceleration.
We were Northbound on Route 100 (2 lane blacktop with dotted line to pass if you dare in oncoming traffic lane) above Millwood, NY and heading towards Yorktown Heights. From my front seat position, I could clearly see the speedometer. We were behind a car and doing about 45-50MPH.
Our driver was late and impatient. He decided to pass. I heard the metal slap of the accelerater peddle hitting the floor and the tick tock sound of the signal as he swung left flashing high beams off and on to alert the car he was passing.
The 6V71 is a reliable engine but certainly not a racing engine. Slowly the speedo hit 55 as we began to lope along the side of the car and was pushing 60 as the rear tire of the bus was even with the car.
So the genius in the car decides to speed up. Why not? The car driver was a moron who would happily irritate the driver into passing and then speed up to keep him from pulling around safely.
The Fishbowl we were on was going to max out at 70 and finally did as the driver in the car kept pace with us holding us in the passing lane against traffic.
All through this, there had been no oncoming traffic. But as the speedo hit 70 and the 6V71 reached governed speed, a truck apeared in the distance coming at us in his lane - the one we were in to pass the car driving moron who was just close enough to keep the driver from pulling back into lane!
So our driver did the only thing he could do - pull gradually to the right anyway. After all - we were bigger than the car driving moron who seemed to be trying to get us all killed.
In the end, the car driver pulled back. And we pulled into Yorktown a few minutes less late.
But I really thought we were gonna buy it that time.
BTW - I don't blame the bus driver at all for his moves. That road though narrow regularly saw traffic at 60MPH and faster. The car driver had been stopping and slowing up for no reason other than to hold us back for miles. He was trying to teach us a lesson because we had made one stop in front of him in Elmsford to let off a passenger. This delayed the car driver in traffic behind us. So he had to "get even." What a dope!
Why does MCI put its radiators on top of the engine carpartment?
Most buses put them on the side. Placing it in that position would make it harder to reach.
Also on their radiators there are something called shutters.
They are in front of the fans. What do they do? Stop the air from going through the radiators?
you could post this question to a bmb i know. e mail road trk @aol. com.
The shutters are for exactly that. A diesel engine works purely on compression, not on a spark. Therefore, the warmer it is, the more efficiently it burns its fuel. In cold weather, it takes longer for the engine to get up to operating temperature, so the shutters prevent air from passing through the radiator, and less heat is exchanged between the engine and the atmosphere.
-Hank
Shutters are common on buses in northern fleets. Many GMC old and new looks had them. I have never seen an RTS with them but I suppose they would work.
The location of the radiator just behind the rear wheels is not Ideal.
Any dust, salt or other junk that the tires kick up get sucked in through radiator. The salt eats them up and the dirt clogs them.
The higher location on the MCI's makes them stay cleaner but also harder to work on.
On transit buses the air conditioner condensor is on upper rear area so it does not work as well to put the radiator up there.
The slope back RTS's had both the radiator and AC condensor behind the rear wheel. The AC didnt work because the bus overheated as soon you turned it on.
9/17/99
Just picked up the new LI BUs schedules at the Hempstead Transit center on Monday. They've changed the format for the better and the new schedule looks more attractive and is easier to read. There is a picture on the front of one of their new CNG buses,although the number seems to be whited out.
Bill Newkirk
Gents, Ladies
I've just returned to England after 10 days in "your part of the world :^)" and had the chance to visit a few Depots and other Bus facilities inbetween business.
My earlier postings about Depot badges now seem to be answered and the Transit Museum is even selling old Yukon and 146 st depot stickers
.
One thing I did notice is that most,if not all express coaches and buses operating express routes had a small orange rectangle sticker
on the rear end.
What does this indicate..???
As usual thanks for any reply..can YOU answer this question lol lol
......
Regards
Rob :^)
London UK
buses that use nj turnpike and lincoln tunnel are required to have this sticker. they are then permitted in bus lane.
I thought that it also had something to do with 102 inch wide buses. I say this because I've seen Greyhound MC-9 & 12's using the bus lane leading to the Lincoln Tunnel - and I've never (noticed) seen a Greyhound 96 inch wide bus with the orange stickers.
Wayne
I think you are correct. As I understand the rules for the Lincoln Tunnel bus lane, any 96 inch bus can use it. For a 102 inch bus to use it, the bus needs a permit, which is what the orange square indicates.
Has anyone seen or been aboard the Prevost H3-45? They have a higher windshield and a high cap where the passengers sit above the driver.
MCI doesn't have a high cap. You see the back of the drivers head.
My question is why hasn't MCI give its buses a European design?
They should make their gauges backlit and add some rocker switches.
Do they want to stay with the AMerican styling? All other companies seem to be going the other way.
Also about diesels. Cummings seems to offer a broader torque range then the old DD engines. Is this true? They say the old DDs needs to be assissted when going up a steep hill by downshifting.
MCI went for a European design with the 102EL3. You would never know it was an MCI unless you saw it on the bus.
Is the MCI 102EL the bus they call the Renaissance? I assume the answer is yes, as the Renaissance definitely has European styling. There are a number around the NYC metropolitan area, mostly with Coach USA companies.
Yup, that's the one.
Yesterday afternoon I saw 4497(a local bus that was not retrofitted with coach seats on the X27 at Rector & Bdwy about 2:15pm and at 1am this morning I caught 9545 on the Q44 at Roosevelt and Main.Later
4497 was at eny for several months and i believe padded seats were put on the original seat frames.
hi,i am a shifter at ulmer park depot.4497 does indeed have soft
seats,most likely put in at eny.i can probably answer any questions
you may have about ulmer park buses,past or present.
i worked ulmer park 1980- 1987 so are you an old timer too. im currently at yukon.
Maybe Jamaica depot has a midnight run on the Q44. Perhaps that particular run does one trip on the 44 and returns to its Jamaica depot route.Some midnight runs do trips on different lines.
I saw 4497 at Walnut just before it closed. It was out of service for a long time, gutted, appeared to be fire damaged, stripped down to the frame in most areas. It is a testament to fine work of the shop forces.
I didn't know that 4497 was retrofitted with soft seats -I caught a glance from the outside and saw the low seats and not the high coach seats.Does it have the seats padded like QSC 339-385 or the seats like the like the express new looks with the bus -a-rama signs from the late 60's(the low 8800's series)Stengal(then Flushing ) used these on the X51 and the Q44VP in the early 80's
I saw 4918 on X68 on Friday. Weird site to see at QV. Also 1757 X32.
FR
4918 was on the X68 because the circa 1982 soft seat RTS broke down. I don't know what was originally on the run.
1970 Flxible #699 (ex-Mid Island Transit, ex-Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority, ex-MTA Long Island Bus) will be on public display tomorrow from 10am to 4pm at the Merrick Street Festival in Merrick, Long Island, directly adjacent to the Long Island Rail Road station. The exterior has been restored to its orginal as-delivered Mid Island Transit color scheme. On display in #699's interior will be scores of photos of historic Long Island buses, both private and municipal. Many of these photos, along with thousands of others from the New York City Transit Authority, Jamaica Bus, Green Bus Lines, Bee Line, Schenck Transportation, Hempstead Bus, etc.) will be available, along with bus calendars, for purchase. All are invited.
Anyone know if a tag axle on the Eagle coaches can be unloaded like the MCIs?
The Prevost coaches have a tag that can lifted off the ground.
Can any other buses do that?
The eagles use a torsion bar suspension that cannot be unloaded like an air ride
The GMC 4903 and 4905 (Buffalo's) had a retractable tag axle that was in the third baggage compartment. If you opened the door all that was in there was the tag axle.
I don't think that the Scenicruisers could be unloaded. Does anyone know if both axles on a scenic were drive axles or just one? I know each axle had 4 tires.
This afternoon I saw Artic 1205? turn east from 9th Ave into 23rd St. It was interesting watching it go through the turn. The destination sign read "not in service." Is there any chance that we'll see artics in service on the 23 in the future? And where's 995? Haven't seen it for a while. Was in Ottawa recently and they have a new crop of Orion and Nova low floors. Now that's a city which is anticipating the needs of large numbers of aging boomers.
they are just testing the atric. it's assigned to westside depot,maybe they seeing if it can run on the m10 or m11
you saw bus 1025 on loan to westside for training
I saw 995 working on the Q32 this past friday
The Artics that will be going to Westside Will be premeiring on the M102 and possibly the 34th Street Lines!!!!!!! the M10 might get the remaining artics if they are left after those being assigned to the M102, M34, M16! The M11 will never ever see Artics! Its not feasable!
Trevor
I've been away for a week and I'm surprised to be the one informing everybody that Artics will be used on the 23 St Crosstown line. Hudson and Westside are swapping the M23 and the M16/34 for this reason.
I was in Ulmer Park depot today,and thanks to not getting thrown out by any drivers or dispatchers,i was able to write down every run for every route ulmer park has. here is the list..this is as of fall'99
B1- B3 B4
wkdy-43 runs Wkdy-34 Wkdy-26 runs
sat- 28 runs Sat- 26 Sat-20 runs
sun- 25. Sun- 20 Sun-17 runs
B6-Bensonhurst/ENY
wkdy-73(when school open).
wkdy-66(when school closed).
Sat- 56
Sun- 41
B36-Ave U/Seagate
Wkdy-33 (when school open).
Wkdy-29 (when school closed).
Sat- 19
Sun- 15
B64-Bay Ridge/Coney Island
Wkdy-13
Sat- 13
Sun- 9
B74
Wkdy-7
Saturday and Sunday-2
B82-Gravesend/Starret City*
Wkdy-20(with a extra run X91)
Sat- 13
Sun- 12
X28 -Bensonhurst/Midtown
Wkdy-36
Sat-
Sun-
X29-Coney Island/Midtown
Wkdy-10
Sat-
Sun-
*-route is combined with East New York. Trips from Ulmer Park start with a 1( example- route 7=107).
I do not know the list of runs of B82 from ENY. If anyone knows,please send them. Thank you.
Last year, as I returned home from a traction model show at King of
Prussia, Pennsylvania, I have discovered that Ulmer Park lost its
share of bus route B8-18th and Foster Avenues to East New York and
all of bus route B68-Coney Island Avenue to Jackie Gleason (formerly
5th Avenue).
This year Ulmer Park also lost the X27. The ENY share of the B82 is 34 run and 2 Extras.
Why would anyone want to throw you out? By the way, can you please possibly repeat the feat in Flat. and the others? P.S. Good Job/
I just rode an M27, which was using a 9000- series RTS (R36?!). I tried to sit down in one of the single seats on the left side of the bus. Whom are they kidding to think that most people could sit in a seat like that? I am 6'2" and there was no way I could fit in there without going side-saddle. MAybe that is what the designers expected, but a seat like that seems like such a waste.
I don't have that much of a problem, and I'm 300 lbs.
-Hank
Same thing on the DOT's Express Orions. My knees are always pressed against the seat in front of me. The seating layouts were not designed for the average American. On the Dot Express Orions most people take up more than 1 seat. As far as I am concerned the MCI Classics have the widest seats.
Now THOSE I have a problem with. Those classics are tight. The seats may wide, but my knees are always pressed into the seat ahead of me. My only option for personal comfort is to sit sideways, and take up 2 seats. And if the bus fills up, I'm stuck.
-Hank
Don't cry, Baby!
Use the Taxis!
I wouldn't use a city taxi if my life was in danger. I don't know how those drivers get their licenses, but it obviously isn't through the a decent driver training program.
-Hank
Let alone speak or read English
That's not required for a NY Driver's License. You can take the written exam in any of 22 languages, including Hebrew, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, and Chinese.
-Hank
9/23/99
Maybe they dabbled in demolition derby before driving a cab.
Bill Newkirk
While the seating on the MCI classics are a little tight, it is by no means as bad as on the express Orions where the majority of forward facing seats is occupied by one person taking up 2 seats because there is no room and your knees are pressed up HARD against the seat in front of you.
Not to mention the lack of foward facing seats :)
Service Improvemnts
M9 Union Square
Terminal loop to be modified---
West on E 14,South on 3 Av,,West on E13 st,North on
4 Av to layover South ,,of 14 st (existing Bus Stop
of the M1 Bus route)
Alternative Discussed
West on E14 ,,South on Broadway,West on E13,,North
on UNiversity Place
Implementation Summer or Early Fall of 1999
_________________
M35 Extension on Randalls Island
via West along the service road,,paralleling the
Manhattan Span,,Rounding in the traffic Circle IFO
the Parks Dept Bldg,pass the MTA Bridges and Tunnel
Robert Moses Bldg,as it proceeds toward the Triboro
Bridge,across the Bridge to Manhattan
Deletion of Service to Meyers Building Loop
---Psychiatric Hospital
Span of Service is Weekdays 530 Am to 1257 AM and Weekends 530AM to 1232 AM
Implementation Late 1999
19 new pictures just added and 3 new sections added!!! Check it out! www.angelfire.com/ny3/nycbuspage
Peace Out
-Clayton
I have the brochure about bus fares that I picked up from a Newark Subway car last August 3rd (I have the receipt I got from the ticket machine at Franklin). Anyway, there were a few questions I had.
1. The brochure said that receipts are issued by the farebox for more than one zone ride and must be returned to driver on exit, how does this work and what about the back door?
2. When I got a transfer from the Newark Subway from the driver, I didn't pay for it, the brochure says you pay for it when you get it and it comes out of the farebox (this one came from a book like the old NYCTA paper transfers).
3. The brochure didn't mention anything about zones on the second leg. It said you pay for the first bus to the transfer point and 45 cents for the transfer, what about riding multiple zones on the second bus? Do you pay for those?
4. How will transfers work when the Newark Subway goes to POP and you will have to buy tickets from the machines and punch them at validation stampers at the station?
5. Does the subway currently differ in any way in fare system from the busses (except for the exit fare collection Franklin bound)?
6. The brochure was for North New Jersey, is there anything different about South New Jersey? Except for the fact that busses to New York are functionally replaced by busses to Philadelphia, is the fare different? Do they have a South New Jersey "Intra-Commuter?" (in North Jersey, busses to points along routes 9 and 18 from Hudson County and Newark)
What is printed in the brochure and what actually happens are two different things; Theory and Practice.
1. Receipts are issued for bus fares, but are almost never regulated. Very few people actually take them and the driver collects them in a bag and most discard them at the end of every run. IMHO, they are a complete waste of paper and contribute greatly to litter on the bus and on sidewalks near bus stops.
The receipt policy doesn't work and should be discontinued.
2. The Newark Subway doesn't have fare registers that issue receipts and transfers like the buses do, so the old-style paper transfers are used. The fare structure is the same for the subway and bus (are you sure you didn't pay for the transfer)?
3. I'm not so sure about this myself.
4. Don't know.
5. See #2.
6. The fares for South Jersey buses are slightly lower than North Jersey (for example, a 2-zone ride in North Jersey is $1.55 -- in South Jersey it is $1.40.)
There is no South-Jersey Intra-Commuter fare.
The Newark City Subway has an old style Cubic farebox that takes bills as well as coin, so the "ticket" you can but in Newark is inserted as you leave and, mainly based on it length, the farebox reads it as a ticket vs. a bill.
Mr t__:^)
I agree that paper receipts on the buses is a waste, as most drivers never collect them. A few make a big deal to make sure the paying passenger takes a receipt, but most ignore this and just throw them in a bag. I recollect that you can transfer to and from the Newark Subway from some of the bus lines (my experience was on the #74) without paying an extra transfer charge as long as you paid for the correct zone on the bus. Frankly, the NJT fare system is overly complicated and should probably be made much simpler. Occasional riders often go crazy trying to figure out what the fare might be. The only offsetting factor is that many of the NJT routes are not exact fare - the driver gives change.
The "Full Service" (lines that don't require exact change) are mostly New York and Philadelphia routes, except for some Hudson County-New York lines. Just about all local lines require exact change.
So if you ride the subway and then 3 zones on a bus, you would pay $1 for the subway on the subway, then get a transfer and pay 90 cents (the difference between 1 zone and 3 zone fare)?
I have 2 questions on the pronouncation of names.
1) First Prevost Car.
Is it pronounced "Preevost" or do they use the french "PraVo" with a long O.
2) The Dina Viaggio 1000. Is it Veeago with a long O? Or is it Viggio
Long I and long O?
Or the last way Long I Vigeeo with a long I long E(ee) and long O?
Yep can get pretty confusing.
I always heard that Prevost was pronounced Preh-vost.
Wayne
You'll hear it both ways. Some people don't pronounce the "st" on the end, as it IS a French name.
As for Dina Viaggio -- I may be wrong (I am NOT a linguist by any means) but "Viaggio" I believe is actually an ITALIAN word. The ONLY
way I have ever heard it pronounced is Vee-AH-gee-oh. (The vowels in Italian, I think, are pronounced the same way as in Spanish.)
The following came as a surprise to me this morning, even though I've had this book maybe 15-20 years. It's titled MACK by John B Montville published by Haessner Publishing, Inc in Newfoundland N.J. in 1973.
The Mack brothers started in the 1890's making carriages and wagons in a 3 story structure on the corner of 3rd Avenue and 22nd Street in BROOKLYN. That was a surprise to me.
In 1897 they moved their operation to 532-540 Atlantic Avenue at the corner of 3rd Ave, a site which had previously been used by the Atlantic Avenue Railroad Company of Brooklyn. The Mack brothers business was building wagons, and carriage and wagon repair. The book says that they built a steam car and an electric car, but both were not successful.
Here's the other interesting thing to me. One of the brothers met Isaac Harris, who had been given the concession to run horse drawn sightseeing stages in Prospect Park. They spoke of building a motor vehicle. By 1903 they completed a open touring bus capable of holding anywhere from 15 to 20 passengers. So the first Motor Driven vehicle produced by Mack Brothers was a bus. It was a long way from a C -49, but it was built in Brooklyn not far from the Transit Museum.
There's a delightful story about getting that first vehicle to start up. If some of you are interested I'll follow up with it.
Again this information came from John Montville's book Mack.
Went back to my copy of the "Fifth Ave. Coach Co." article in the July/Aug 1971 issue of Motor Coach Age by Bernard Linder. Incl. is a route map that shows that route #16: Appears to have started at about Queens Blvd., went up Broadway to Baxter (Elmhurst Gen. Hosp.) to Roosevelt, then up 81st St. to Northern.
As was said here before it became the Q89 which no longer exists. This area is currently served by several pieces of other routes, e.g. Q53, a Crosstown route that runs on Broadway, Q29 which goes via different streets but crosses Jackson Heights in the same way as the #16 did, but goes further south to Glendale (Myrtle & 80th St).
The only point here is that your replys have helped with my education of what existed back in 1925 and what's there now. So, THANKS !
Mr t__:^)
New Bus and Subway Pictures and a Subway Roster Update at Trevor Logan's TransiTALK
Check it out!
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
Hello,
I am interested in Bus, Tram and metro destination and number roll sign listings.
Can anyone help me, please?
Any assistance will be gratefully received.
Kind regards
david Reynolds
If you just need the listings,,recall all listings for FDNY84 or FDNY
Steve
If you would like actual sign curtains, let me know.
Which rollsigns do you have?
Carl M.
The type I have are mostly the Blue/red ones which first began appearing in the mid 70s. There are a few I will not ged rid of, such as Flushing, 126th St., Ulmer Park, but most others are up for grabs. 54th St. is also not available. I have ENY in the white letters on blue curtain version, both front and side.
Let me know which depots you are interested in. I might have an extra Steinway Transit, too.
Do you have any roll signs from Brooklyn routes from before about 1965?
No, I do not. I have a side sign from an Ulmer Park "Bat wing" bus. That is as close as I get. I might have a 5th Avenue Blue/red front sign.
On the way home tonight I noticed signs posted on Bus Shelters in Section 5 (Co-Op City) that the Bx26 was not stopping at any of the stops in that section and that passengers for the 26 should take the Bx28 to Asch Loop.
What is going on??? I could not find any information on the NYCT Website.
If the TA is planning to cut back the Bx26 route they had better be prepared for a politcal battle that they can never hope to win (the Community has already successfully blocked a previous propsed change to the 26).
The BX26 is going to be cut back and eventually eliminated due to ridership concerns. In fact most of the routes serving co-op city are to be re-structured in 2000. The MTA plans to test out a floating route pattern based on computer projetions of ridership. Basically this means that most bus routes will no longer wind through the development but pass by about a 1/2 mile away at a new transit hub. Co-op city will be served by half-hourly shuttle buses to this new hub, hourly buses during the non-rush times.
That is very interesting information! But the is the actually going to be acomplished. The folks in Co-Op City are not going to let this plan as explained go through. There are just too many people in this community to have 1/2 hourly shuttles running. Is this new hub the proposed redesigned Pelham Bay Station set up?
Thanks for the Information! & Peace!
DaShawn
Do you have any further details
Thank yuo
Steve
It's all very preliminary but the potential 'mini-hub' will be at one of the following sites: Boston Rd/Connor St, Pelham Pkwy/Williamsbridge Rd (#5 train transfer), or in or near the Bartow Ave side of the Bay Plaza shopping center. Bay Plaza is the close to much of co-op city but is already generating a lot of automobile traffic which is disturbing nearby residents.
while on broadway yesterday I notice a RTS NYU Bus with a Painted over Coach USA Lable that had what looked like an air conditioning unit on the roof. Does anyony know why???
The NYU service is operated by GreyLine of NY and that operation along with ShortLine has come under the Coach USA regime. The RTS's you speak of are a current fleet that has roof mounted HVAC units and are painted in the NYU color scheme which is nice. I always see at about 12:30 to about 1:00am I see a coach USA Flxible #2270 that does one of the last runs and ends at the new dorm at Union Square. This bus has a full coach usa paint scheme. I think it is part of the contract that each company that comes under them has their units eventually painted to a full coach usa scheme. Also units from olympia trails have been transfered to I think Suburban trails and you can tell the prior companies unit from the top of the roofline which still has the old colors.
Peace
DaShawn
Hi
What is the routing,,terminals,,,,etc
THanks
Steve
I can give you partial info to get you started. The main terminal seems to be the main campus in Greenwich Village, The building across the street from the Library. The buses are always lined up there and they have various routes like the N, S, E, W, and D also these buses take students to the different dorms and educational buildings that NYU has from as far north as 34th street to as far south as the Financial District. Hope that can help you get started.
Peace
DaShawn
I was able to pick up a schedule and route map at the main NYU student center last year. The system has expanded since and the routes have changed. Perhaps someone can pick up a new schedule and trace the routing.
Can anyone get me a p hone number to call to get scehdules....etc
Steve
THANKS
For NYU bus information and schedules, go to www.nyu.edu/infocenter/ride
Hey Aaaalan!!! Where are you????
He's out there, I've spoken to him recently.
Peace Out
-Clayton
He may be on vacation. With all of his seniority he has a lot of vacation time to use.
I'm glad to hear he's okay. I was afraid that maybe one of the losers in Who's Waited the Longest for Q-32 Contest might have bopped him over the head with her umbrella. Having to wait 45 minutes and still losing the washer/dryer might be too much for some people.
This is sort of off topic, but Alan does the Q32 out of HUD. Not CS, so he could not have been abducted by orions.
Peace Out
-Clayton
I'm on vacation (as M3 guessed correctly) and went to New England last week. Ths week, I'm still on vacation but broke, so I will be sticking my two cents in on a regular basis. (Sure was nice to be missed!)
I guess you can have a busman's holiday with your pass ( is that what they call employee id ?) Go find 995 and have a blast. I think I also spread a rumor that you were bopped over the head by a sore loser from your Whose Been Waiting the Longest for the Bus Giveaway?
Since the MTA is "reconfiguring" schedules on its' website, and my bus had no schedules this AM, can anyone tell me if Bard Avenue has been eliminated as one of the limited stops on the S94 on Staten Island? The operator(I'm not sure if that is the correct term)insisted it was no longer a stop after he grudingly allowed me to board there this AM. It has been a stop ever since the S94's inception in, I believe, 1994.
Hello, again; I am still unclear whether the removal of the above now allows one to use the unlimited on the same Bus Route (say alternate branch) in less than 18 minutes. Also, were the corridor restrictions removed, as well? How about for the P.P.R. card: is it now considered "Transfer OK" between: M31&M57, M27&M50, M96&M106.,Third and Lex. Routes, Madison & Fifth Ave. Routes (opp. Dir.)? What about bet. the Bx40 & Bx 42, as well as the Bx 1&Bx2 in opposite directions? Also in BKLYN, bet. B41&B44.
You can transfer from the B44 to the B41. What is wrong with that transfer?
B46M Limited
Hi; I was told that there was, or still is, a transfer restriction from/to Local/Limited on the same line, e.g. B41, B44,M15, etc. That is what I meant. Also, years ago, one was not permitted to transfer bet. Northbound B-44 and Southbound B-41., and , I believe, vice versa. Anyone in Flat. Depot would know for sure. Sorry for the confusion and the delayed response.
"I was told that there was, or still is, a transfer restriction from/to Local/Limited on the same line, e.g. B41, B44,M15, etc."
There is still a 18 min. transfer restriction on the "same" route. So, if another bus comes by, e.g. a limited and it's the same route I don't think you can transfer free. In Queens we have a few of these same conditions, e.g. Q101.
Re: B41/B44 they only meet once at Flatbush & Ave H, I would be interested to know if a transfer is possible.
Mr t__:^)
You do not need a transfer if you use a multi ride daily, weekly Metro Card, and there is no time limited
Hi, there; you will find that there are or used to be certain corridor restrictions, even with Unlimited Cards.
"I am still unclear whether the removal of the above now allows one to use the unlimited on the same Bus Route (say alternate branch) in less than 18 minutes."
Same route ... wait 18 minutes. Any bus is the same to your MC if it's running on the same route.
"is it now considered "Transfer OK" between:"
M31&M57 (crosstowns on 57 St); M27&M50 (crosstowns on 49/50 St); &
M96&M106 (crosstowns on 97 St) ... I would think NG
Third and Lex.; Madison & Fifth Ave. ... maybe, don't know the rules here, i.e. they're only going the same direction, vs. other combinations where route splits off in another direction, e.g. B41 & B44 below.
Routes (opp. Dir.)? ... sorry no U-turns, logic is you have to pay for the return trip.
Bx40 & Bx 42 (both on E. Tremont Ave); and
Bx1 & Bx2 (both N/S on Grand Concourse) ... I would think NG
BKLYN, B41&B44 (41 & 44 cross each other vs. using the same road)
=============================================================
Disclaimer I'm not a transportation expert, but would be very interested to here from anyone who can elaborate on this.
Mr t__:^)
NYCTA buses use a Allison trans. with 3 speed I believe. Most intercity buses use a six speed with a digital display. What are the models and the differences?
Also on the digital there are two arrows for unpshifting and downshifting. On NYCTA there are only buttons with lights. There is a
button "Mode" on the five and six speed panels. What does that do or mean?
NYCTA buses use the Allison V731 series. The 1996 RTS's have V731 without a retarder. The other RTS's from 1998 and 1999 as well as 1993 and 1994 RTS's use the VR731 with retarders. The Orions from 1993 use the MT747 which is a 4 speed I think and very rough shifting. Then in 1995 they switched to the allison B400R world transmission. This unit is still being used in the current batch of Orions. The MCI's use the Allison B500R world transmission which is a 5 speed auto with the 6th being an overdrive gear according to the allison company. The same applies to the B400R which is a 4 speed auto with the 5th being an overdrive gear. The new C40LF's have the box you are talking about with a 5 in red being indicated. Hope that helps you a bit.
Peace
DaShawn
I don't know all the features of the B500R selectors -- but I was told that if you press the "MODE" button, then press both arrows, it will give a readout of how low the fluid level in the transmission is. There are other sequences to access other information, but I don't have a manual handy.
I think I know the answer to this but are every bus destination coded into the computer of every NYCTA bus?
B46M Limited
Mike I'm pretty sure they all have the whole system coded into every bus
Well there's one chip in the farebox, but the driver can't punch in any code he/she likes, e.g. the TA can't punch in 251 in Queens, i.e Queens Surface Q25.
All can use 4000 series numbers, e.g. 4001 Not In Service.
Mr t__:^)
Is there any possibiliy that the B7 and 78 will return to Flatbush or is this perminant? also will there be any disscussion from the ta on looking ito adding liited stop service on the 49? or is this one of the reasons that the 7 and 78 were relocated? Hopfully the B7 will become a weekend bus to Coney Island ave as well (ala B50)
It's unlikely that the B7 and/or B78 will return to Flatbush. They were moved because of space limitations at Flatbush, and those limitations still exist. Moreover, Flatbush is scheduled to get articulated buses a few years from now, and neither the B7 nor the B78 has enough service to make operation with artics efficient.
As for the B49 getting a Limited, the planning people have brought up the subject from time to time but aren't proposing anything right now. As far as I'm aware, there are no plans to extend the B7 to Coney Island Avenue on weekends, either.
David
[Is there any possibiliy that the B7 and 78 will return to Flatbush or is this perminant? also will there be any disscussion from the ta on looking ito adding liited stop service on the 49? or is this one of the reasons that the 7 and 78 were relocated? Hopfully the B7 will become a weekend bus to Coney Island ave as well (ala B50)]
when did the old B50 go to Coney Island, I know it terminated at Coney Island Ave & Kings Hwy. I do remember when a B-50 did go to Coney Island. It was the Old McDonald Ave Trolley Car Line
The poster I answered alluded to the B50 having terminated at Coney Island AVENUE, as the B7 is doing on weekdays now. The B50 bus route, which was combined with the B5-Kings Highway route in 1995 (and is now called B82), never went to the neighborhood called Coney Island. The 50-McDonald Avenue streetcar line did go to Coney Island, as you mentioned.
David
[when did the old B50 go to Coney Island, I know it terminated at Coney Island Ave & Kings Hwy. I do remember when a B-50 did go to Coney Island. It was the Old McDonald Ave Trolley Car Line]
I was looking up some information in a 11 year old copy of The Bus World Encyclopedia of busses by Ed Strauss. Can anyone tell me if Bus World and a newer version of these publications exist today, and if so their addresses
Yes! Bus World is alive and kicking and I am a subscriber to it. They are going to be introducing a newer version of the Encyclopedia of Buses soon and they are taking orders for it now. I will have to get you the information from home since I am at work right now.
Peace
DaShawn
i was a subscrber of bus world magazine for at least 6 years. i have most of the issues,and stopped buying it when they changed their magazine. if you know how to order these magazines,please let me know.
I'm a long time subscriber, but I don't like it nearly as much since MAK Publishing took over from Ed Stauss. Although it became a monthly publication - I think it's not nearly as good. They have a web site:
http://www.bus-world.com/
I agree with both Simon and Wayne. Some of the recent issues seem like their cutting press releases from the companies and pasting them together. Maybe publishing it monthly instead of quarterly has thinned the depth of the coverage out. Are either of you guys or any guy or young woman out there interested in the Greyhound side of the world?
Rarely is Greyhound spoken of here. Actually, I am happy that Greyhound vacated their building on 11th Ave. Now I get to see more of the behind the scenes operation.
What I hate the most about the Mak Publishing of Bus World is the graphics they use. They don't print pictures of the buses. They print computer images instead which is unclear and hazy.
I've always been interested in Greyhound. It's a bit difficult to keep track of what's going on at Greyhound - specifically thier fleet. I would like to see a roster from time to time.
Wayne
Beside Bus World, is there another same type magazine, and do they have a web site Thanks for the prior input-Bob
I also have a subscription to a publication called Bus-Ride which is much better than the current BusWorld. This month for instance they talk about the New Flyer C-40LF's at NYCT and also Greyhounds fleet and how they are buying new buses and changing their image, etc. This is produced through Friendly Publications if I not mistaken I will give you the information tomorrow when I have the magazine with me.
Peace
DaShawn
How can I find bus-ride magazine????
Try http://www.busride.com
or write to:
Friendship Publications, Incorporated
1550 East Missouri, Suite 100
Phoenix AZ 85014
602-265-7600
David
[How can I find bus-ride magazine????]
Is Triboro changing the the paint scheme on their buses .Saw 2815 on the Q23 at Mrytle & Woodhaven doing the Union Tpke detour and it a nice paint scheme red and silver on the white background with the Liberty Lines/Jamaica Bus Line type of numbers.Is this just one or are all the buses being redone
2815 was all messed up prior to its new paintjob. The paint in the vents was coming off. 3069 has same numbers. Looks weird.
FR
I was told that the color scheme on 2815 will be the new color scheme for Triboro.
If it is, all I have to say is WOW! I could only imagine what the MCI classics will look like painted in the 'thunder bolt' scheme.
The m42 never comes!!!! Frequent service = 40 minutes?
All the while on the other side of the street there are 4 M42's all bunched together. This has got to be the least reliable and most inconsistent line in the whole system!
M42 buses have to contend with the Lincoln Tunnel entrance/exit (Dyer Avenue), the Port Authority Bus Terminal (Eighth Avenue), Times Square (Seventh Avenue/Broadway), Grand Central (Vanderbilt Avenue), and the United Nations (First Avenue). Pedestrians crossing against traffic lights, taxis, cars blocking bus stops, picking up/dropping off wheelchairs (not a flame against the disabled, just an observation), and other factors can cause buses to get delayed, and when the U.N. General Assembly or Security Council goes into session, forget about it!
David
[The m42 never comes!!!! Frequent service = 40 minutes?
All the while on the other side of the street there are 4 M42's all bunched together. This has got to be the least reliable and most inconsistent line in the whole system!]
That to me is a poor excuse for why this service operates the way it does. The M11 operates better than that. Even though it is not a crosstown line. The M104 has to contend with these same traffic problems minus the Lincoln Tunnel/Dyre Avenue system. The M104 comes like clock work while every time I am on 42nd Street I walk and still beat the M42 across. The deal is the city is not doing a damn thing to help speed our buses along and the service suffers. We have to start doing more as the riders of this system and demand better service from not only the MTA but the City of NY as well!
Peace!
DaShawn
what happened to the talk about building a light rail across 43nd st
what happened to the talk about building a light rail across 42nd st I mean
Sorry to disagree with your disagreement :-), but every time I wait for either an M42 or an M104, the one I'm not waiting for comes first -- sometimes more than one. Then a bunch of buses on the route I'm waiting for come together.
David
[That to me is a poor excuse for why this service operates the way it does. The M11 operates better than that. Even though it is not a crosstown line. The M104 has to contend with these same traffic problems minus the Lincoln Tunnel/Dyre Avenue system. The M104 comes like clock work while every time I am on 42nd Street I walk and still beat the M42 across. The deal is the city is not doing a damn thing to help speed our buses along and the service suffers. We have to start doing more as the riders of this system and demand better service from not only the MTA but the City of NY as well!]
and to add to that the M21 on the lower east side. They are probably bedfellows when it comes to ontime performance.
Peace
DaShawn
Bus service on ANY line can suck for a variety of reasons. The Number One reason is usually that there are delays due to heavy traffic. Number Two is that the line is poorly supervised. Number Three is lack of regularly scheduled buses. Number Four is inadequate number of buses on the line (even if all regularly scheduled buses are on the line). Number Five (and my favorite) is busdrivers that don't do their job properly (e.g., purposefully running ahead or behind schedule). Number Six is acts of nature (e.g., heavy rains, detours due to accidents, etc.). Number Seven (and this is another favorite of mine) is the relatively new TA guideline that says buses should remain in revenue service whenever possible; supervisors should avoid sending buses on dark trips and assigning short signs. While this results in sucky service, on tallies and reports, the line is in "full revenue service." When service is poor on a particular line, more of the above reasons can be applied. How many of these reasons can you use for the M42? I know, but I'm not telling.
I would like to know the location of the following bus depots. There was a web page with all this information, but I can't find it anymore.
Thanks.
•Kingsbridge
•Gun Hill
•Mother Hale
•Amsterdam
•Casey Stengel
•Queens Surface Co.
Casey Stengel is on 126th Street off Roosevelt Avenue. #7 to Willets Point, Shea Stadium. Then walk one block east. Can't miss it. Brian
KB: Take 1 or 9 to 215 St walk down 216 st can't miss it
GH: Take 2 or 5 to GunHill Rd then take the BX28 bus to Baychester Ave and I-95. Depot is on the right.
QS: Take 7 to Main St then Q25 bus to Ulmer Ave and 28 Ave. Depot is along 28 Ave
AMS: All I know is that it's past 60 Street. 10 Ave
Dunno about MCH.
FR
Mother Clara Hale = 721 Lenox Ave, Manhattan
Formally called 146th St depot, current name since 1993
Amsterdam is at 129th st. & Amsterdam Ave.
Amsterdam - Amsterdam Ave - W. 129th Street
Wayne
GunHill is locaated at Bartow Ave in co-op City
I also needed info on depots but having just returned from a rather rainy NYC I have the following info, much of which regular Bustalkers have posted!The 18 depots i know of are:
.....(HQ= DIVISION HEADQUARTERS)..................
Brooklyn Division (5)
East New York (HQ) 1 Jamaica Anemue Brooklyn NY 11207
Flatbush 4901 Fillmore Avenue Brooklyn NY 11234
Fresh Pond 66-69 Ffresh Pond Road Ridgewood NY 11385
Jackie Gleason 871 Fith Avenue Brooklyn NY 11214
Ulmer Park 2449 Haraway Avenue Brooklyn NY 11214
...........
Da'Bronx Division (4)
Amsterdam 1381 Amsterdam Avenue NY 10027
Gun Hill 1910 Bartow Avenue Bronx NY 10469
Kingsbridge(HQ) 4065 10th Avenue NY 10034
Mother Clara Hale 721 Lenox Avenue NY 10039
...................
Manhattan Division (4)
126th Street 2460 Second Avenue NY 10035
Hudson 11 Eleventh Avenue NY 10011
Manhattanville 666 West 133rd St NY 10027
Westside (HQ) 525 Eleventh Avenue NY 10018
...................
Queens Division (3)
Casey Stengel 123-53 Willets Point Blvd Flushing NY 11368
Jamaica 165-18 South Road NY 11433
Queens Village(HQ) 97-11 22nd Street NY 11428
.................
Staten Island (2)
Castleton 1390 Castleton Avenue SI NY 10302
Yukon (HQ) 40 Yukon Avenue SI NY 10314
......................
nycta buses command centre: East New York Depot Brooklyn
..
Hope this helps
if any of the above is incorrect please ammend
Regards
Rob :^)
London UK
NYCTA Bus command center 25 Jamaica Avenue. Brian
The 25 Jamaica Avenue address is at the East New York bus depot!
For complete bus depot information on the Web, check out Meaney's Bus Page at http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/nyctmtabus/index.html and click Bus Depots.
On the Dina Viaggio 1000 there is a light on the dash "Drive Axle Overload". What does that mean? How can a drive axle be overloaded?
There is no air suspension, they use a torlastic so the tag can't be unloaded.
I was woundering if there was anyone who has been on one yet. I have been driving them since I have started driving tin Jackie Gleason on the 12th of this mounth. I found that they are the best bus that I have driving so far. Most of the passages like the bus, but some of them do not like them at all. The ones who do not like them say that the bus is not good for people who have ot stand up and for other resons. I even had a passage tell me that she is going the wright her congressman and conplain about them. You and I know that the TA won't stop the order and take them off the raod of any resion.
So let me know if you like or dislike them.
P.S. if anyone rides the B16 I am Run #1 on Saturday and Sunday, Run #2 on Monday and run #4 on Thursdays and Fridays.
hi robbert, i am a shifter at ulmer pk.i had the chance to look
over the new flyer at the system pick this year.it seems like a
really nice bus.the low step makes me wonder;does anyone ever
come to close to the curb and damage the step?years ago we were
taught to pull into the stop and put the front step over the curb.
i assume you are unable to do this with the low floor.being that
curb heights are different at many locations,how do you curb this
bus?it's also good to see the wheelchair lift in the front.does it
work well?well,i got to get to work now!!later.
Having LOTS of experience on New Flyer low-floors, I'll say YES, you can damage the bus by pulling it too close to the curb, ESPECIALLY if they have a front-door wheelchair ramp. (I've been driving the D40LF's for four years now, since we first got them.)
There is a part of the flap hinge mechanism that sticks out (has a curved slot in it) and if you get too close to the curb, it hits and will eventually break. It also makes one hell of a nasty sound when you hit the curbs with this part. If the bus has a rear-only ramp, there is still a piece of the bumper framework jutting out and down that makes a god-awful noise when you hit the curbs.
I find that being careful, I can keep the steps about 3-6" away from the curbs, and with plenty of practice, eventually you can put the edge of that front step/ramp in the right position and use the kneeler switch to get it perfectly level with the curb and you don't have to use the ramp for a wheelchair.
One comment I have heard from passengers who stand on the NFI D40LF's, is that the standee plumbing is up too high. Our agency solved the problem by adding the handles that NYCTA has in subway trains to the pipework, and the complaints stopped. Perhaps this is one of the complaints you are hearing too?
Hello Rob, My name is David & i had rode on New Flyer Articulated on Bx12 going to work & coming home. Those buses are really cool & comfortable ride. Alot of room inside the buses & it better than RTS Buses. Im not a member of MTA but my father is a driver at West Side Depot & soon im going to be a MTA Traffic Checker. So enjoy your weekend & be safe.
Peace Out
Meaney
What engines do the Flyers have. I heard that it was a DD Series 50 300 horsepower turbo.
Those are the same as the Orions.
How can such a engine push such a huge vehicle. They seem to take off
pretty quickly.
Is it a different ratio in the gears.
The series 60 seem to be better. Can those engines fit in the carpartment?
I Drive the New Flyer Low Flour. The DD Series 50 CNG are very fast. The only thing that took time to get used to is the brake retarder. The retarder come on as soon as you take your foot off the gas. On other busses you have to put your foot no the brake for the retarder the come on.
Yeah, that retarder can be a pain in the ass until you get used toit.
The other thing it does is come on when the bus attains a certain speed, usually 67 miles an hour. We have some freeway routes out here, and the damn thing cuts in and out when you hit slight downhill stretches of the roads.
I know it is probably against the rules where you drive, too -- but you can always turn the thing off using the toggle switch in the headsign compartment above the driver seat. I tried this whenever getting on the freeway and it sure helps smooth out the ride. Then I flip it back on when I'm back on the surface streets again.
In the New Flyer low-floor operators manual, it says to turn the retarder off on wet or snowy streets!!!
We do have rules about turning it off. I turned it off about two week ago when ST Flord hit New York. After driving with it off I started to knowest that the brakes were smoking so I turned it back on. The retarder then help me slow down without sliding the bus. Also our busses have Automatice Trackion Control System and ABS Brakes on them. I can't wait untill I drive them in the Snow.
MARTA has tons of these buses. The low floor is nice but you pay my having a bi-level interior-just past the rear door is a step up. I can see having such a bus in rush hours: someone is pushed (by the crowd) and falls down that step! I always sat in front of that step( And for MARTA they are CNG)
Valley Metro Transit in Phoenix, Arizona Has Be Using New Flyers D40LF Since 1996 with rear door wheelchair ramps. On The 1998 models there are no foward facing seats (Valley Metros Idea?! To Increace standing room during rush crunch?! On some lines this is from 5am to 9pm Monday-Saturday. reducing the seating from factory 37pas to to 28pas if there are 2 wheelchairs on board this reduces seating to 19 passengers.) 1 1/2 Foot Cloth straps were added for "Short Staders" who can not reach the pipe set from front to rear at 6 feet off the floor. (Valley Metro Is In the process of converting the older D40LF to the 28 Passenger Seating design. Yuck!)
I want to know that 8600s is Novabus or TMC? Someone told me it TMC and other said Novabus. I look up at Glenn Bus Roster & said it Novabus & i look up at Trevor Logan Bus Roster & said it TMC. This is some kind of mistake guys but im not sure that 8600s is Novabus or TMC. Just post this & let me know. Enjoy your weekend people.
Peace Out
Meaney
Nova didn't take over until the 9000's.
8600-8703 are definately tmc(1994).nova buses begin at 8750.
there are currently no ta/oa buses numbered 8704-8749.
Agreed on that one, the first NY MTA Novabus, according to the Novabus production records (actually, photocopies of their VIN-numbers, delivery dates, etc.) was 8750 delivered in August, 1995 (at least according to NovaBus.)
Why are there no MTA buses numbered 8704-8749?
fr
It was common practice that when the MTA had an odd number of buses in an order, such as the 8600-8703 batch, the next order would start at a rounder number (in this case 8750) rather than starting at 8704. Most of the recent MTA order have been rather round numbers (in the 100's), so you don't have the same issue. As some earlier posts pointed out, it was somewhat strange that the MTA began the MCI order at 1860 (or is it 1861; I forget).
Today i got a email from Glenn who is member of Urban Transit Club & said 8600s is the first Novabus not TMC because the Novabus company took over in 1993 & TMC went out of business. 8600s buses made in 1995 & i remember 8600s first delivered to Old 100st Depot in 1995. I believe Glenn Bus Roster is right & other is wrong. If you think im right or wrong?? Just send the email to Glenn & he will let you know.
Peace Out
Meaney
8600-8703 is a TMC, Nova did not pick up the RTS design 'till 1996, This is mis-information, when you ride a 8600-803 bus check the manufactures patch above the drive it is TMC NOT NOVABUS!
Trevor
I don't know you guys are right or wrong. This is some kind of mixup information. Im not going to said this again if you telling me It Novabus or TMC. I know you guys are not a member of MTA or somthing but im going to find out myself it is Novabus or TMC & i will tell you. So have a nice day & i hope freaking mets better win today.
Peace Out
Meaney
Actually I am a memeber of the MTA!!!!!!
Trevor
They are TMCs all the way!!!!!!Sometimes the people that work for the MTA are not always the best sources to get your info. When you find out the right answer it will be TMC. Like it has been said before 8750 started the Nova Series.
Meaney wrote:
(I don't know you guys are right or wrong. This is some kind of mixup information. Im not going to said this again if you telling me It Novabus or TMC. I know you guys are not a member of MTA or somthing but im going to find out myself it is Novabus or TMC & i will tell you. So have a nice day & i hope freaking mets better win today. )
Ok so why don't you ask Glenn6398 that his email & i got confused with this mixup company. He send me a email early this morning & said it is Novabus but i don't know who got the right answer. Some people said it Novabus & some people said it TMC but im not stupied & don't even think im a moron. I have three diffirent infomation about Bus Roster & even got me more confused. One said made in 1994 TMC, Trevor Logan Bus Roster said it 1995 TMC & Glenn Bus Roster said 1995 Novabus. So who got the right answer? So any of you guys in this Bustalk work for MTA driving Buses?? Well give me a right answer so i won't get confused. The score is TMC 5 Novabus 3. Im going to ask you guys to tell me it Novabus or TMC.
Peace Out
Meaney
I can't believe Mets lost to Philles today & now they tie first place in wild card so look like they not going to make it to playoff any way they suck & they hit like a girls.
Listen, I'm sorry but its TMC, sorry to down glenn, but that roster is wrong in alot of spots, I'd love to meet his source, my sources is me, a MTA employee and a guy up in the Department of Buses who gives me roster info right out of the book, I can assure you, PROMISE YOU, that the 8600-8703 are 1994 TMC RTS-06!!!!!
Trevor
I can back up Trevor as well and say that his information is concreate and 100% accurate. The whole TMC/NovaBus thing was started in 1993 and they first purchased MCI Canada and then they looked at TMC after about 3 years in late 1995 the purchase went through and FairFax Virginia recieved the last of the TMC produced RTS's along with MTA NYCTA. TMC had such a backorder that the plant remained opened longer than expected. So the information that Glenn has about that in not correct at all.
Peace
DaShawn
Yep, Trevor is right, the TMC and NovaBus printouts that Ihave also agree with what Trevor said.
Up to 8704 are TMC buses.
There are NO buses 8705-8749.
Then, starting with 8750, the buses are NovaBus.
I really tried to avoid bringing this up, but after this post, I can't.
A lot of the confusion that people on this board a experienceing when reading your posts is that you don't complete your sentences, you don't use punctuation, and don't use the proper tense of words.
I tried not to say anything, but when I read this post and see you say "im not stupied & don't even think im a moron" amongst your other sentences, I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
If you feel the need to flame me, my email address is nixon@quuxuum.org
-Hank
OH for real, lets not start with the personal insults Hank! Let it go! It was said in the heat of the moment, and the NOVABUS/TMC issue has been settled, LET IT GO! Oh and thanks the e-mail address!
Trevor
Email address has always been attached to my posts, when I post from home, at least. I'm also a contributor to this site, and as such, my email address is on the 'about' page, as well as the SIR line-by-line. Speaking of email addresses, where's yours? Kaybee and MCIMan's page has a link to my web site, and my email address is there as well. As for personal insults, I intended nothing. I've been biting my tongue for months now (with the marks to prove it!) on the grammar issue. I hate haveing to read a post 2 or 3 times just because someone didn't take the time to proofread, or at the bare minimum put a period at the end of a sentence.
Just a warning to you guys, I just interviewed with First Investors Corp, and they had me write a business letter as part of the application process for computer tech. There was also a math test, and a vocabulary test.
-Hank
Hank please spare us all! The deal is you have spoke of this issue in the past on this site and if people make mistakes they are permitted to do so. If you are going to correct someone do it with respect and not insult. Some people on this site are of all different backgrounds such as "Meaney" just read his information placed on his site. I am very pround of him and everybody else who contributes to this site and I look past peoples mistakes, differences, etc. I am not quick to judge others like somebody else I know but I will leave it at that.
Peace
DaShawn
Thank You DaShawn, Not everyone is "Perfect" like our dear Hank!
OH and Hank you want E-mail address, well.........
here:
surface__transit@hotmail.com
DMTABoy@aol.com
JerseySurface@aol.com
transitalk@yahoo.com
I hope that is very informing for you! Contact me at anyone if need be!!!!!
I'm sorry but that grammar comment you made, just made you look like a real jerk. You must realize that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. I know I do, and sometimes I don't have time to just sit and proofread and spell check every posting I make! So let it go!
Trevor
And how does someone look if they can't write a complete sentence? How do they look if they can't use punctuation and the past tense of verbs? I don't know how old you guys are, but once you get out of school, good luck trying to get a job if you can't write a decent paragraph. I realize this is not quite 'the real world' but let me tell you, it creeps up on you really fast. If you can't write on an acceptable level, start practicing the phrase "Would you like fries with that?" because you won't get far. And now I'll drop the issue.
-Hank
First of all, HANK, I am the 1st Assistant to the President at Brenner International Corporation and a Transit Museum Guide (recently!), and I'm getting ready to purchase 3 buses to start a charter company, oh AND I'M 19! RIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL with a job that pays close to $50,000 a year, if you can be that, TELL ME, so don't give me that "your education level is higher than others" crap! To all other bus talkers I must apologize in advance! It just pisses me off when someone who has been wrong several times before can correct people! HANK YOUR HEAD IS TOO LARGE, AND YOU HAVE COME ACROSS THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO POP A WHOLE IN IT!!!!
Trevor
surface__transit@hotmail.com
P.S. Continue if you want!
I also want to back Trevor and other fellow Bus Talkers on this same issue as well. Hank, please stop it! This behavior and attitude is totally uncalled for. The reason I say this is because you have the habit of correcting people in a disrespectful way, and you give reasons of being tired and all this other crap. I also want to say you should be a shamed of your self for insulting peoples intelligence based on age, race, and other aspects that should not be used here at all. I for one have been out of HS for six years and I am currently working at a Public Access television station which I teach people of all ages and races. I suggest you learn not to put malice and discord in to basically every comment you make. And by the way I am 24 years old and quite proud of how far I have come and still continuing to improve myself and others without disrespecting them. I will leave it at that.
Peace
DaShawn
That's fine. But the way some of these post look, you come off as if you barely completed third grade. It was never my intention to insult anyone, and since I've never met any of you, I don't know how old you are. But what I stated is the impression one gets from reading posts like the ones I was criticizing.
Now, as for insulting people based on race, I'm going to put it in bold letters, because I don't want to be misunderstood (or Miss Understood :).
I never insulted anyone based on race. If you construed what I wrote as an insult, that's fine. But none of it is based on race. I've met all of 2 people who have ever posted to this board. The rest of you are electrons formed into shapes that make up words and pictures. Everything I said was based upon only what I've seen, and until today, everything I had seen pointed me into believeing that none of you were even in High School, which was the reason for my post about how life up and kicks you in the ass after graduation. I will apologize for any percieved insult, which was unintended. But I demand an apology for you calling me a racist, an accusation based upon nothing.
I'm not perfect either. I dropped out of college. I'm a pretty poor speller. I can't type worth a damn, and simple algebra equation have me ripping out my hair (2x*2y=6x+y!) But the occasional misspelled word and typing 'teh' when you mean 'the' are forgivable. The fatter the fingers, the worse you type; this is true in my case. It's the sentences, paragraphs, and 'hear' for 'here', 'there' for 'their', 'passed' for 'past' stuff that is just inexcusable for anyone over the age of 12. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels about it the way I do; I'm probably the only one stupid enough to put his head above the edge of the foxhole.
Again, it was never my intention to insult anyone, ESPECIALLY since we may all one day find ourselves together at a roadeo or a bus fest.
-Hank
#1 I did not say you are a racist! I said your ways of insulting people based on age, race, and other aspects of peoples differences. The reason I brought up race is because you had a nerve to make a comment about the skills that Trevor and some other people have by just reading this board, qualifies them for a job flipping burgers. That is just plain rude. You should instead uplift someone and possibly offer some help to others. Now I will apologize to you if you thought I called you a racist. I still think your actions in what and how you say things have some unintentional racist energy in them. I always say to you that we are all human and you are no different. Just try to be more sensistive and understanding, that's all.
Peace
DaShawn
I sure hope this is the end of this thread. Unfortuantely, Meaney had been put through this before, and explained his situation quite well. Although I originally wondered about the grammar, spelling, etc. of his posts, I now look forward to his posts to get the matters he speaks of therein - and don't mind how his posts are grammatically, etc., as long as I can understand what he's saying. Let's all go forth and concentrate on the substance of each poster's messages and not the other characteristics. BusTalk will be a much more enjoyable place for everyone that way, as it generally is.
Also, if someone posts something that someone else disagrees with, let's be respectful in correcting the situation. The Nova vs. TMC arguments got a little out of hand. Nobody necessarily is right all of the time, and if someone tries to correct you, both parties should make their respective points in a nice, respectful way.
And now back to buses....
Thank you Sid for that. I totally agree with your whole post and for me this situation is over in my book. So I agree: now back to the buses!
Peace
DaShawn
I said your ways of insulting people based on age, race, and other aspects of peoples differences. The reason I brought up race is because you had a nerve to make a comment about the skills that Trevor and some other people have by just reading this board, qualifies them for a job flipping burgers.
This is where you called me a racist. You're making the assumption that only persons of a different race than mine (which you don't know, BTW, nor do I know yours, nor do I even care. Electrons in patterns forming pictures and words, that's what you are to me) work flipping burgers, which is completely untrue. I made the burger-flipping comment based on a previously demonstrated lack of writing skill. The prejudiced conclusions that you can make from my statements are:
I have a certain disdain for people with a poor english writing skills who are native english speakers.
I believe that people who have poor english writing skills are doomed to jobs 'flipping burgers'.
-Hank
Well I will put this to an end like I said in an earlier post. I have made my appology to you and to the rest of my fellow BusTalkers who had to read all of this and still have to deal with you. From my end this is over! For the Last time Hank! "LEARN TO DEAL WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND THEIR DIFFERENCES" By doing this you will have a more plesant time here on this board.
Peace
DaShawn
Hank, You said that you've only met a couple of the folks that post here ... why not consider comming out for some of the subway "Field Trips", or even better help orginize a bus/subway one on you home turf. I've met DaShawn & Sid from NJ along with many others who post here. I now have a whole new group of friends which makes me feel very good. One new friend is joining me for a ride to the Shoreline at Branford in the hope that he'll get the chance to pull the handles on one of their old subway cars Oct. 9th weekend.
Your unique knowledge has been part of my learning experience which I'm glad that you are willing to share with us, but sometimes you seem to rub people the wrong way and as you've said before it wasn't your intention. After I write something I re-read it before I "POST", and use a smilie face to guard against miss-understandings.
Mr t__;-)
I've tried. The last few field trips I've been otherwise occupied for. I'd like to organize an SIR trip, but the problem with that is that the SIR service isn't frequent enough to be able to get off, look around, and continue. I wanted to go to the Brooklyn Waterfront tour, but I had committed to doing something with my girlfreind that Saturday. The Newark Subway trip coincided with a relative's Bat Mitzvah, the Willy B trip with my work schedule. I'm hoping the next trip comes up on a date that I can attend, and make my little peace.
And I'm sure that if one looks at the thousand or so posts I've made, they'll find mistakes. Hell, once I even stated flat-out there was no such thing as a double-ended PCC!
-Hank
PS-I'll bring cookies. People always like cookies. :)
"I'm hoping the next trip comes up on a date that I can attend, and make my little peace."
How about if we share a couple of brews then & generally just enjoy each others company ?
P.S. I've been hoping that you would find a way to "Field Trip" SIR as I've never been there ... if you don't count a High School Band competition where I saw a train go by.
Mr t__:^)
If/when it does happen I hope I can make it into NYC. I don't visit as often, but I really need to as I'm starting to lose my NYC accent:-).
It would be good to meet you all...
Wayne
Unfortunately, the best way around Staten Island is by car. I guess we can blame the planners of the 60s for that.
-Hank
Seriously, maybe there would be enough interest in a out-N-back trip.
Sunset comes early now, even though the temp. makes it a great time to go riding on the subways. Is there a yard of some kind near the southern end, i.e. we could get off, maybe have just enough light for a few photos & get back on as the train returns ?
BTW, I wouldn't mind a short trip with not too much to see because it would give me a excuse to take a Red Bird from Main Street and maybe catch another one from Times Square to South Ferry :-) I also have this pile of Fun Passes that need to get used so I can add them to my album :-) AND I do want to get one of those "Transfers" that the farebox issues at St. George :-)
I could do this all by myself ... but that's no fun !
Mr t
What Im wondering is why Hank would get upset and decide to tell us not to post union topics here and then when someone asks about the address of the Queens privates he can post a really stupid answer to it. Hank your a smart guy and very knowledgable but sometimes you come across as a real know it all and its really a big turnoff for lots off us here.
The Queens Privates thing was a gag. As for the Union thing, you've seen it on Subtalk where the union discussion rapidly turns into an all-out flamewar. Granted, the discussion between Trevor, DaShawn, and I looks close, but as you can see, it's all rational, no one is cursing, or blaming each others mothers for things.
I admit to being a big smart-ass. I try not to be, and when I'm wrong, I admit it. Hey, I even changed the subject for this discussion to what seems to be peoples current opinion of me.
-Hank
Hey Hank! You are not a bad guy at all and I will give you a lot of credit in saying that you do admit when you are wrong and it takes alot of guts to do so. No hard feelings here!
Peace
DaShawn
GREAT! As long as you know I wasn't intending to be insulting.
-Hank :)
i drive for nyct in staten island. 1996 rts was a cooperative effort. when you ride you will see tmc on the dash and nova on the wheel.they still produce at roswell new mexico former tmc plant. all buses made 1987-1995 are tmc. 8600 is 1994 series.
Right.
According to NovaBus printouts which I have right here, showing VIN-numbers, date of completion of the bus, date of delivery, date of acceptance, owner, fleet number, the FIRST NovaBus built for MTA New York City Bus (that's what the name is listed as in these NovaBus records I have) was.....8750!
There may have been some TMC nameplates/horn buttons, etc. on the first bunches of NovaBus production, but that's because many of those parts are ordered ahead of actual bus production. I don't think they're just gonna throw them away for the heck of it. Besides, the new NovaBus emblems, etc., probably weren't ordered at the time of the sale of TMC to NovaBus!
And out here where I drive some REAL GMC RTS's in southern California, we have a couple 1980 units that actually have TMC horn buttons! So does that make them a TMC? Hell, no.
Look at the DMV registration card and see what it says for make of bus -- or the VIN-number plate. Things are usually pretty serious when it comes to those VIN-plates, so you can bank on what it says on them. (Unless of course, you go to Tijuana, where RTS's run around with TDH4801 registration cards....that's a loooooong story.)
When NovaBus purchased the TMC plant they also purchased the name and that is why even on the 1999 RTS's they carry the TMC logo because it is owned by NovaBus. The MBTA also recieved the exteme last batch of RTS's from the original TMC and the last like 113 units were done under the auspiceies of NovaBus which can be verified by the plaque above the driver.
Peace
DaShawn
everybody,be assured that I know what i'm talking about.i've
been around for every rts bus delivery since 1982(i've been
a brooklyn division operator that long)the 8600 series are
tmc without a doubt.they are so listed on ta registrations
and rosters.please lay this argument to rest now.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
MTA Long Island Bus 202, an Orion V natural gas unit, is sitting in back of the Mitchel Field Depot, its entire engine area burned to a crisp. Does anyone have details on when and where this happened? This fried bus is clearly visible from the street and easily photographed.
1 down, XXX to go!
>>>>>1 down, XXX to go! <<<<
You don't like Orion CNG's??? I've found them to be good buses, I think it's poor maintanance by LI Bus, not Orions fault.
Is NYCT havibg problems with their Orion CNG fleet at Gleason?
I find them to be quiet at idle, but you really hear it bark when it accelerates! The CNG's are better than the diesels, and they are very fast.
I don't trust CNG's. A few years ago, one of the RTS CNG's at Triboro exploded in the parking lot because of excessive sun heat blasting the roof. Thank goodness nobody was near it to get hurt. There have been a few other incidents there and on other properties that have been kept hush and I will respect that privacy. In at least one case the company involved never told DOT! A diesel bus can run for 20+ hours before it has to be pulled in to refuel. A CNG in MSBA, I have been told, burns too much fuel to run for two eight hour shifts so the buses have to be refueled after 8 hours. This mean lost productivity which the MTA always moans about. CNG's have been pushed down the throats of the MTA and DOT privates by George Pataki. They are maintance nightmares. Anybody know the maximum hours a New Low Floor Flyer at Gleason depot can stay out on the road before it runs "dry?" (Notice dry in quotes, yes I am aware it is not liquid!)
You can see a few pics of Command TMC RTS #4927 that was involved in a fire on my site in the Command Storage section. Here is one:
~~Kevin Barsky
Any known cause?
-Hank
The bus was stuck on a median in Manhatten. A mechanic tried rocking the bus off the median after a tow truck had already been called to go tow the bus. Something sparked and the bus went up in flames. The mechanic also did not use the emergency fuel shutoff switch. He is no longer working for Command. As far as I know Command tried to cover the whole situation up. After the hurricane the bus cover blew off the bus and i took pics.
Well there have been quite a few engine fires with the diesel Orions NYCT has had too. As far as reliability, I've been riding the Orion CNG's at LI Bus and have never been stuck on a bus yet. Only one time last summer I was on a bus that stalled a few times, but got me to my destination. One time I was delayed by a broken down bus was on the N79 at Walt Whitman Mall, and it was a Gillig Phantom that broke down in the lot before picking us up.
Now I've seen NYCT have their fare share of trouble with their diesels, just a few days ago I saw a few breakdowns of their diesel Orions. Personally, I think Casey Stengal depot does not have the great buses it used to have, since they got all Orion diesels. The RTS is a better bus.
You can get more hours on diesel buses, but, they pollute the air and they are slower than the CNG's. The smells on the diesel emmissions, which seem to be worse from the Orions than the RTS's, really can sicken me (like in Flushing the other day). Diesel engines (especially those on the Orions) sound like trucks. Just stand in Flushing and smell those horrible fumes from the diesels. And they look dirty too.
Even the straphangers campaign wants NYCT to get clean air CNG powered buses, like LI Bus has. I've spoken to quite a few LI Bus drivers and they prefer CNG buses over the slower diesels.
I am against low floor buses though, I don't think they are safe because you are at car level, and in these days of SUV popularity it's better to sit high. Low floors are only good for a small bus, such as the Orion 2's LI Bus has.
I know you may disagree, but the best bus out there is the Orion V CNG. The best diesel bus is the RTS. Diesel Orions are OK, but Gilligs suck.
For instance, one Orion CNG can do the N22 to Hicksville from Roosevelt Field, then the N20 to Flushing, then the N21 to Glen Cove, then N21 back to Flushing, then N21 back to Glen Cove. And those are long runs. Most NYCT routes are shorter than that.
The Orion V CNG's are OK but not the best. These units are not as sturdy as the RTS or New Flyer. The Orions are of poor construction and I have no clue why the TA keeps purchasing these buses. NYCT units have had their chasis strengthened at 207th street when they go for a 3 year upgrade. Just take a look the next time you are up at 207th Street station on the #1 line, nothing but Orions are in there for right now. Now I must admit that the 1999 Orion V's the TA has are fast! and not to mention quieter and cleaner than their older counterparts. CNG units are too expensive to operate and maintain and CNG does not have the same energy content as Diesel so for that reason CNG units do not have the same operating range. I also do not trust CNG units for the same reasons mentioned in some previous posts and they are just overall not cost effective for this region. As for cleanliness, most modern Diesels or Clean Diesel units are so much cleanier it makes older units seem filthy. One no brainer for making Diesels cleaner is to use roof mounted exhaust instead of street level. LACMTA has found this out and has retrofited older buses and has ordered new units in this fashion.
Peace
DaShawn
One of the things I like about this site is it's education value to me on the job, thanks DaShawn. Not to mention that I'm a subway nut.
Mr t__:^)
Bill, Very interesting input. A number of months ago I read about a re-fueling station problem (explosion/fire) in Calif.
At this depot maint. isn't down on the CNGs ... they do require more maint., some of that is being caused by nervious folks in NY State DOT, they don't understand that gasoline is just as combustable as CNG.
We have high speed (they've got a term for it) fueling system that seems to be working OK. The only problem I know of is that the fuel guage isn't always accurate in the bus, i.e. we've run it dry a time or two.
P.S. Bill I hope you're wrong as there is a whole bach more CNGs comming any day now.
Mr t__:^)
There was a manufacturing defect found in some Orions which is known to cause fires. A wiring harness in the engine compartment was secured improperly, which eventually shorted and caused a fire in several buses, the news story followed 2 buses belonging to Rutgers University in NJ. So it could be something totally unrealted to the fact that these are CNG buses.
And I don't buy the tanks exploding due to sun exposure. I've personally witnessed them test those tanks. The actually SHOOT at them with a .22 Rifle. The tank did not rupture. If there was an explosion, it would most likely be due to poor piping, not bad tanks. Although, there was a batch of bad tanks that was in the news recently, but I don't think it's a problem that affected any NYC buses.
-Hank
Amoung the first batch in the current order there were some that had to have the tank fittings fixed.
Mr t__:^)
"The CNG's require more maintance." Except for the original Triboro RTS CNG's, the Queens (Triboro & Queens Surface) CNG's are primarily used on express routes. So they require more maintance, but have less mileage as the majority of the buses run in the peak hours and not too many in the off peak. I have my doubts as to when Triboro receives their new local CNG's how they will be able to keep up with them mechanically. The local buses have tougher operating conditions: more hours of continuous service, heavy traffic conditions, more passengers getting on and off, etc.
Good point ... hopefully we won't find out that their another Grumman Flxible. Before all you Flxible lovers attach, let me ask a question:
LI Bus & WMATA have had a lot more experience with this Orions model, are they having the type of problems you're talking about ?
My point is that we shouldn't have to re-invent the wheel.
P.S. I know our Maint. VP goes to meetings of his colleagues where they discuss things that the mfg. my be trying to hide until they can do damage control.
Disclaimer: I realy don't have much to do with this here, just curious
Mr t__:^)
202 always seemed to run a bit hard and rough. Any reasons as to how the fire in the engine started??
Well I was on a Gillig (517) and it was hell ride, the engine was so loud you couldnt hear yourself think. Those things are like old worn out school buses. I really thought (or hoped) a Gillig engine would catch fire, instead of the nice Orion CNG's.
Hopefully they can fix the charred back of 202 and get it back on the road, because there's probably a Gillig Phantom out in place of it now. One too many of those Gilligs is too many. They do have some of the Orion diesels at Mitchell Field now that the CNG is up at Rockville Centre.
Spoke to a friend at LI Bus ... apparently 202 had a hydraulic leak that MAY have been dripping on exhaust manifold. The cause is still under investification, but the point is that it was NOT related to the CNG fuel.
Disclaimer: I don't work for TA, LI Bus or NYC-DOT, so this is not a official statement.
Mr t__:^)
Hi! I'm a frequent commuter on the Q25 route to College Point. I rode pass the depot today on my bus and to my amazement, I saw bus 927 with its parts on the ground. All you see is the engine. Anybody knows why this bus is like this? Thank you.
Fred Freeman
If I'm not mistaking, bus 361 is the same way as 927? What happened to them? Will they be back in service?
Double J "Jack Jones"
361 had a accident back in May.
927 the report says "Bulk Head", it may be one of the MCI we're doing a major rehab on, i.e. we take all the seats out spend some serious cash on a bunch of stuff and give the whole outside new paint, etc.
Mr t__:^)
Hey I saw this bus in Manhattan today with the left side all banged up under thr driver's window. Accident related?
FR
Today a memo was issued by Cheif transportation officer Sinclair to all Manhattan personnel in Road control and depots that New Flyer articulated buses are forbidden from running in Manhattan on the 66 St transverse roads. Because of clearances and narrow width of this transverse the buses will not be used on the M72 and M66 bus routes.
Also they cannot be rerouted through the 66St transverse Road.
The memo then stated that the Artics can run on 79, 86 and 96 Street tranverse Roads.
Maybe a sign of things to come?
Same kind of thing happened with the CNGs ... but there it was just a matter of getting DOT to prune the trees higher along the routes.
Mr t__:^)
Today a memo was issued by Chief transportation officer Sinclair to all Manhattan personnel in Road control and depots that New Flyer articulated buses are forbidden from running in Manhattan on the 66 St transverse roads. Because of clearances and narrow width of this transverse the buses will not be used on the M72 and M66 bus routes.
Also they cannot be rerouted through the 66St transverse Road.
The memo then stated that the Artics can run on 79, 86 and 96 Street tranverse Roads.
Maybe a sign of things to come?
In the NY Daily News, Saturday September 25, page 7, is a article about the Buses and Subway systen would get nearly $11 billion of the unprecedented $17 billion capital program transit officials are about to unveil, source said on Friday September 24.
The plans also calls for the TA to buy 1,056 buses and 1,130 subway cars and to plan, design and start digging for a Second Ave Subway line.
After the good people of BusTalk reads the article your most excellent thought as always, are most welcome.
Charlie Muller Bedford Park Blvd, Bronx. Home of the Bx #1 and Bx #2 Concourse Line, Bx #26 Co-op Bus line, and Bx #34 Fordham Road Via Valentine Ave line.
Great article,only prob is the reproposed 2nd ave subway.Services only uppereast side (where you can smell the money)-doesnt service midtown east and lower east side(know its bustalk but had to be mentioned)
I posted this idea on the Sub Talk side earlier, and forgot about this side of the fence on which I used to hang out a lot. Anyway, I was thinking of having a place on this site where we could have people who helped build, run, and maintain, and maybe even ride the transit system leave a record of what it was like to work for transit, how they felt about their working lives, how their working lives affected their family lives, how they look back at what they did and left behind as a legacy to New York, how they feel the public views them. I sort of see it as a permanent rememberance of the people who built and worked on the lifeline of this city. Perhaps a way of giving some appreciation and honoring of working men and women who worked on transit. Would anyone be interested in reading this? Anyone be interested in doing this? Anyone interested in sharing their work and life history? Anyone with ideas on where this idea should go? Either leave a post here or you can take it off the board and e-mail me at pkronenberg@webtv.net Thanks for any feedback positive or negative or even neutral... Paul
Who makes the RTS now? Is it Nova, GMC or Tmc?
It seems that so many companies make the same bus. Has GMC sold the plans for the RTS. Am Im right that Volvo owns Nova?
So the RTS is a German bus made in America?
The RTS was designed and built by GMC from 1977 until 1986.
General Motors decided to eliminate their bus production (i.e. the Coach part of Truck & Coach Division) then, and sold the RTS design and production rights and tooling to TMC. The entire production facilities were moved to Roswell, New Mexico (from Pontiac, Michigan). There was an order for NYCTA in production at Pontiac at the time (NYCTA buses 4600-4899) and the basic shells were shipped to Roswell for completion.
TMC made the RTS from 1987 until 1995 when everything was sold to NovaBus (a Canadian firm). Production continues at Roswell, New Mexico under NovaBus ownership. Since 3/95 in has been NovaBus.
NovaBus is actually owned by Prevost, and (I may be wrong here...) Volvo bought Prevost in recent months (??)
VOLVO IS SWEDISH NOT GERMAN, BUT STILL THEY ARE USA MADE
Who said anything about Volvo being German?
Of course the RTS is still American-made -- in Roswell, New Mexico, right near where the UFO's supposedly landed years ago :-)
And New Flyer is a Dutch company -- though it is based in Canada and has a plant in Clarkston, Minnesota. The parent company's name is something like Van den Oudsten Ltd., from the Netherlands.
The Orions and New Flyers are different companies?
Is Orion American? The Flyers and Orions look a like in many ways.
Are they related?
ABout your last post, Humm? Maybe the RTS uses UFO tech?
actually they are different companies, but both headquarted in Canada
And Ford has recently announced purchase of Volvo. With DaimlerChrysler, what's next? Kraft making Brie?
Yes, but Ford didn't buy the bus part of the business.
I noticed that many drivers keep the retarder off even when driving during good weather. From what I understand with the retarder on there is increased pressure in the brake pedel. Increasing pressure, then
the service brake kicks in. With it off there is not inveasing pressure and the brakes just kick in. I guess most turn it off to
avoid the increase pressure needed on the brake pedel?
Now I know a Jake brake is different. Just take your foot of the gas
and it kicks in. Takes a little more getting used to?
Having driven buses withJake Brakes (MCI MC-9, 102A3 and 102C3's), I can say that the "feel" of the Jake Brake is not as intense as the transmission retarders on the newer transit buses. In fact, the downward compression of the Jake Brake is NOWHERE near as strong as these newer transmission retarders. But they DO help in such cases as negotiating long mountain road downhills, etc. Without them, the brakes get seriously (DANGEROUSLY) hot and fade out. Not too safe.
And then there's those Telma electromagnetic retarders. No feel at all to them. We have 'em on our RTS's out here and I can never feel anything. Usually the shoe brakes are squeaking by the time the Telma retarder does anything, so I don't kow if the shoe brakes are doint most/all of the work or what.
The diferance that I feel is better braking with the retarder on the ZF trans. that we are using. There is no differecne in the feel of the pedal with it on or off. Its the same return spring pushing back on the brake valve.
In very hot weather we turn them off to keep from overheating as the Trans retarter builds a lot of extrea heat. On a 90+ day the bus runs 15 degrees cooler with the retarter off.
I used to drive a Neoplan tour bus (N116/3 model) that had the ZF transmission, and the retarder was MANUALLY controlled by a lever on the steering column -- looked sort of like an old shifter. If you used the retarder to slow the bus down, descending grades, etc., you had to keep one eye on the transmission temperature guage as it heated up really fast. But it was a really effective retarder.
I know that if you take the retarder off on the D40LF New Flyers the brake will start to smoke. The retarder on these busses come on as soon as you take you foot off the gas peddle. It took me about a trip to get use to it but know I like it.
Hey Alan. There was a rumor circulating that you were stuck in the articulated joint of one of the new Flyers. But then one of the guys clued me in that you went to a Bud & Lou convention in Patterson. Nice to see you back. Maybe you can settle the controversy about Nova or TMC buses.
I got a late night call from my friend Edgar Crazy,
well known psychotic. I am repeating what he said
to me. To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the
appearance of the 6000 series of C49 Mack buses on
the streets of Brooklyn, which is today, all evening rush
hour service will be provided by the recently
reincarnated C49 Macks. They will be in their
original Ave. B & E. Broadway colors, despite what
some of the people here think were the colors of the
original Brooklyn Macks. Customers are advised that
Metro cards will not be honored, and that you must
deposit the exact 13 cent fare in pennies whenever
possible into the Johnson coffee grinder farebox
which will then give you a container of Chock Full
of Nuts coffee. Upon payment of an additional 7
cents you will get a cream cheese and date nut
sandwich.
Bus Enthusiasts who wish to photograph this historic
event are warned that Digital Cameras, Polaroids, in
fact any camera manufactured after 1956 will not
record the buses. You are all advised
to get out your Brownie Hawkeye cameras and get a
couple of rolls of 620 film. Edgar tells me that
the first bus will be leaving the W5th St Depot at
4:30 this afternoon, and will be driven by Mike
Quill. All buses will be off the street by 7:21 PM.
Do not ask to stay on the bus and ask to ride back
to the depot. The buses ( busses or bussess) will be garaged in a
place that you really wouldn't want to be.
Please do not post messages correcting the
predictions or details of Mr. Crazy. He is not to
be reasoned with.
If you find this post silly, then there is some hope
for you. If you find this post inappropiate and
unfitting to the serious nature of this board, I
will cease and desist from further such postings
for the remainder of the day.
Since Mr. Crazy also predicts that the entire world will revert back to 1900 at year's end, I will say my goodbyes now because I won't be back for another fifty-five years.
Who said anything about reverting to 1900. On 1-1-2000, the New York Transit System will revert to the mid-fifties. You'll be just an infant. Of course there is a definite downside for you Alan,
if you should decide to drive a bus again you'll have no seniority from this lifetime. You'll have to put in at least another 20.
I read in "Modern Intercity Coaches" that Prevost car has a axle that
can be retracted. It was in a H3-40, H3-45. Anyone know If this is true?
Can a eagle tag be unloaded?
Also, does anyone know how a torlastic suspension is setup and how it works? (Heard something about torlastic chains).
The Orions and New Flyers look alike. Same headlights and all. Are they made by the same company? If not what kind of company is Orion?
Yes this is true about the Prevost Coaches, cause I seen it retract myself! As for the Orion and New Flyers, no they are not made by the same company, the only thing they had in common is that they have a Manufacturing in Canada!!!!!! Also Gillig carries the same headlamps too!
Trevor
Can anyone say 'Off-the-Shelf' Componants? Pretty common things in manufacturing. Heck, the tailights for the MCI Renaissance are from the early-90s Ford Econoline! The windows on the MCI DL3s, New Flyer D60s, and the Orions look as if they're the same dimensions. Then there's the roof hatches, the gas tanks....
-Hank
On a recent trip back to New York earlier this month, I was on a Southbound M6 one Saturday afternoon around Union Square. One of the new MCI 'over the road' coaches used for SI express service was running next to us with X17 headsigns.
I know the X1 and X10 are getting Sunday service, but I don't remember anything about the X17 getting any weekend service. Was I seing things or does the X17 now run on Saturdays?
It does indeed. 90 minute service, from 6:30A to 6:30P from SI, and from 8:30A to 8:30P to SI. Total trip time is about 75 minutes. The route it follows is the 'C' route, from Woodrow and Huguenot to East Midtown via Richmond Ave, 6th Ave, 23st, and Madison Ave. Return trip runs on 5th and B'way.
-Hank
Heypaul. I was out there on Coney Island Ave this afternoon, and just as Edgar Crazy predicted there were Macks out on the runs. It was a dream come true, and I shot 3 rolls of 620 on my Hawkeye. There must have been 20 Macks. I saw 6012,6019,6028,6094,6107, and 6209. I had 3 cups of coffee and 2 cream cheese with nut sandwiches for a total of 53 cents, that's with the fare included. And was I surprised at 7:15. I was up at Bartell Pritchard Square, and I heard a roar. Coming of out of all the streets leading into the circle, were the 20 Macks and they weaved in and out of formation better than the June Taylor Dancers, which few if any of the people on this board would know about. Behind the wheel I recognized Mike Quill and Jackie Gleason, and supervising the formations was Ed Norton recently hired as an executive. This continued until 7:21 as predicted,and they all Macks headed into Prospect Park. I went running into the Park to see where they were going, but only a mild scent of diesel exhaust was left. They were gone. At 7:25, a brief announcement was made that this was only a taste of what was to be permanent on 1-1-2000
At that point the entire NYC transit system would change. PCC's would return to their routes, the tracks would reappear out of the ground, and the trees would bear wires. Macks would take over all routes which were previously covered by GM's. In the subway low V's, Triplexes, Standards, R1/9's, would reappear. New York would become transit buff town. All the post 1945 rapid transit equipment would be sent up to the various trolley museums, where young people could go to see the trains they loved. But for the boomers, it would heaven on earth in New York City. Less than 100 days and counting down.....
9/28/99
Funny! Isn't there a full moon out tonight?
Bill Newkirk
Since Hudson doesn't have any 8600s and I am not usually a passenger on buses, I request that anyone working at Westside Depot (where there be 8600s) provide this much sought after answer. If a Westsider doesn't respond by week's end, I will go up there and find out (although I won't be losing any sleep until then).
It is TMC!!! I ride these buses EVERY day to and from school, the plate above the driver says TMC and the logo in front of the fire extinguesher says TMC manufactured in Roswell New Mexico. Please belive me here!!!
Peace Out
-Clayton
AGAIN, not to sound cocky, but I have been proven correct! For those that doubt me, paddedperson6000, or DaShawn, Go ride a Westside or East New York bus route that has a 8600-8704 RTS on it, Look at the manufacturers patch above the driver and it will clearly state, TMC!!!
Thank you!
Um I might be confused here and If I am incorrect please forgive me. But I have agreed with you from the beginning about this whole TMC/NovaBus thing. It's a thing about sounding cocky, but more of being confident in something you know is 110% correct and getting people to realize that. By doing so some people will mistaken that for cockiness.
Peace
DaShawn
Sorry A little typo, I should have said: "It's not a thing about sounding cocky" Stick to your guns man!
Peace
DaShawn
Oh i'm not fussing with U! I'm glad you have confidence to back me up! THANK YOU!!!!!
Trevor
You can't go by the plate on the fire extinguisher box. ALWAYS go by the manufacturers plate, usually located above the driver. The frist TMC RTS' had GMC plates on the fire extinguisher box, but by law, they must carry a plate that identifies the manufacturer, GVWR, serial number, model number, and some other pertinent info. Cars and trucks have this as well.
-Hank
Uh oh, here we go again (or is it....STILL??)
TMC made the RTS in Roswell, New Mexico.
Guess what?
So does NovaBus. Same plant, same tooling, same everything. Just a new owner.
Wanna know the real scoop? Check the VIN-number of the bus. The VIN-number can be found on the builder's plate along with the GVWR, etc. The VIN-number is a 17-digit number/letter combination. The first eight digits denote the builder, plus various specifications such as vehicle size or engine and transmission. (Varies from builder to builder.) The ninth digit is what is known as a "check digit" and will go in sort of an order, but you gotta be Einstein to figure out how to calculate the check digit, which can be 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, or X)
The TENTH digit (a letter from H through R on TMC's, and R through X on Novabuses) denotes the builder's designated year model as follows:
H - 1987
J - 1988
K - 1989
L - 1990
M - 1991
N - 1992
P - 1993
R - 1994
S - 1995
T - 1996
V - 1997
W - 1998
X - 1999
(Note there were no vowels used....)
Next digit will be an "R" for all RTS buses made by TMC and NovaBus.
(GMC's will have a "V" for this digit.)
Then comes the six-digit group of numbers, the actual serial, starting with 82xxxx and going through 83xxxx. These actually continue from GMC's RTS production.
Serials 810001 through 824997 are those built by GMC (General Motors).
(There are no 824998 to 825000.)
Serials 825001 through 830481 are those built by TMC.
Serials 830482 and higher are NovaBus. I have the complete production lists from the manufacturers that show this.
Nova Bus took over TMC on 01/01/95. The order on the production line at the time were 250 buses for MBTA Boston (MBTA property numbers 0001-0250). MBTA #0138 was the last bus off the line before ownership of the plant changed hands, MBTA #0139 was the first after the plant reopened following a brief transition shutdown.
Yep, that is EXACTLY what the TMC and NovaBus production printouts that I have show -- the cutoff was MBTA 0138 -- RR830404/0139 -- RR830405.
Yep, that is EXACTLY what the TMC and NovaBus production printouts that I have show -- the cutoff was MBTA 0138 -- RR830404 last TMC/0139 -- RR830405 first NovaBus.
Can anybody out there help me out. I know that the New Flyer low floor buses are operating out of the Jackie Gleason Depot. Can someone please tell me what routes the are operating on so I can take a joy ride. I waited over an hour at the Park Row terminal of the B51. It was only operating 8500s.
Thank you.
Usually the New Flyers are spread evenly among all Jackie Gleason Routes, but I have spotted them most used on the B67 and B38!
Trevor
You mean B37,B38 is Fresh Pond and all you get out there is either 4700's or 9100's (once in a blue moon u see a 9500 or a 5000)
Sorry, my bad it is the B37, but everytime i ride the B37 I have had a New Flyer (Around 3pm on Saturday)!!!!!
Trevor
Jackie Gleason just got 12 new one on Monday so you it will get even easyer to ride one.
Hey Fellas. I'm going to make everyone here the
same offer I did on SubTalk. Working in my labs, I
have developed a pair of virtual reality glasses
that can be used to make the world, bus builder
plates, or even the BusTalk Posts read anyway your
heart desires. Just put a pair of these glasses on,
and you will see the world as you want. I've been
wearing them now for over 6 months, and whenever I
get on a bus, it's a Mack Bus. Whenever I read somebody's comments about one of my posts, I read only of their praise and admiration. It's a great thing,
have the world your way. I am going to make
these glasses free to anyone who wants them.
Guys--time is growing short. Don't argue about who
makes the bus---get out there and ride them and take
pictures of them---because as of 1-1-2000 there will
only be Mack Trolley Buses and PCC trolley cars
gracing the streets of our fair city. Enjoy the
TMC's, the Novas, the Orions, the Flyers, and
whatever else travel the streets today. Again
effective 1-1-2000 you won't even be able to find
the current buses in museums. They will be gone
from the face of the earth. Enjoy the smell of
diesel exhaust fumes while you can. Bottle some of
it to revive your spirits after 1-1-2000.
P.S. Don't go to the trouble of telling me that Mack didn't make trolley buses. I won't be able to hear you because I wear a virtual hearing aid.
Today I was on my way home from work during the height of the PM rush hour when I spotted a WMATA RTS (GMC RTS II-03) on fire. It appeared that the driver and passengers managed to get off safely.
Wayne
To all bustalkers,
I would like to put forth my formal apology for being extremely harsh and hostile towards Hank. It just gets me really upset when someone judges someone prior to in-person meeting or even holding a true conversation with them!
The point I'm trying to put forth is that, "DO NOT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER OR SPELLING OR GRAMMAR," We are not perfect and never will be as much as we may try!
I am sorry for my harsh words!!!
Trevor
When we discussed Mack Busses last week. I also mention at that time that 5th Ave ran some Whites (Mid 50s) on the 15-Jackson Heights Line. I was wondering didn t they have a couple of ACF-BRILLS also? I remember somebody did in the city and even in Jersey. Can someone else remember? Since everyone else has a handle. I now will use the one above, since it no longer exists and I do not live near Kings Highway anymore. But why give it 82, the 5 has always been there, the 50 was not
During the planning process, it was initially decided to designate the combined B5/B50 route as B55. However, the head of the planning section reasoned that the former B55 route has been re-designated as Q55 only a few years before, and people might become confused (never mind that the Q55 and what's now called the B82 don't run anywhere near each other). On the East New York end, there's a route called B83/Pennsylvania Avenue; both the B82 and B83 start in Starrett City.
David
[But why give it 82, the 5 has always been there, the 50 was not]
Is that the same guy who changed the B 10 to the B 15, because the Q 10 went to JFK?
One and the same, but in that case changing the B10 designation to B15 made sense. You don't want a bunch of confused people stepping off planes and going to Queens when they were headed for Brooklyn, or vice versa.
David
[Is that the same guy who changed the B 10 to the B 15, because the Q 10 went to JFK?]
Bob,
(This is going to be rather long)
Fifth Avenue Coach (FACO -- so I don't have to write out the entire name) had five White model 1150. They only ran on the route 15 as you said. In early 1960 they were sold. I believe they went to Memphis.
Surface Transit also had a White 1150 as a demo.
Regarding the ACF's. The only New York City area operator that had post war ACFs was Queens-Nassau Transit (later Queens Transit). These were model C-44. They had an air intake on top of the destination sign that made them look very strange. This was by state law.
In New Jersey, Inter City and Public Service had C-44 Suburbans.
The Board of Transportation, City of New York tried out the ACF C-48 as a demo at about the time before they ordered the TDH 5101s. This bus went to Chicago.
FACO might have tested an ACF. My production list for ACF shows nothing going to FACO.
However, FACO did have a Flxible demo that eventually became part of the CTA fleet.
Thanks, I knew that I was not going crazy. I remember Public Service amd a couple Jersey lines had the ACF/Brills in the 50's, but I also knew somebody in NYC had them Bob
Hey, tough guys! Listen up (especially Hank!) NOBODY IS PERFECT IN THIS WORLD! WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO, SPELL CHECK OUR POSTS? YOU THINK THAT BUSTALK HAS TO BE IN YOUR FORMAT ONLY AND NOT AT ALL?!
IF YOU DON'T LIKE ANYBODY'S POSTINGS HERE OR THE WAY THEY SPELL, I SUGGEST THAT YOU START YOUR OWN VERSION OF BUSTALK, TOUGH GUY! IT'S PUT OUT OR GET OUT! YOUR CHOICE!
I hope that I don't have to do this again, but I'd like to talk strictly about the buses here, not grammar. If I want that, I go to school. I do this to get out of the stresses of school, not to get back into them. See ya later!
FR
I agree with Frank,,,but I also agree that we are getting away from the reason why we are here,,today ...the Interests of Buses and Transportation .
I have mentioned this to Hank ,in the past,,,and people ,,, I am a College Grad and I work for the NYC Fire Dept.,so I am not some high school kid,looking to demean others ,for their education ,spelling inclusive!!!
Steve
And I went to college for 14 years at night to get a 4 year degree, but still can't spell !
While being smushed on my Q60 this morning (5541) I saw 1 new CNG orion arrive with no red paint on it and the other is a regular RTS TMC bus with a new paintjob and it's not 2815 as posted on your last posts. The CNG is 3067- the number scheme is very much like bus 3049.
Then while waiting for the light on Yellowstone Blvd, I saw bus 2824 with the red and silver paintjob and black numbers written in script scheme. But it looked like there was no rear number. I'd guess that Triboro wants a new futuristic look going into the year 2000. It looks very nice and I hope to get a pic of it real soon. When I do, I'll let you all know.
Peace!
MM2000
The futuristic script numbering is very likely. At Bus Fest '99 TCC sent Fishbowl # 621 with a new paint job with the script numbers. I think if you look at pictures of the fest at this site or others you will see what I'm talking about. Unfortunately the orange paint makes the coach look more like the old QT/ST scheme rather than the old Triboro scheme.
While on the topic of TCC does anyone know what the number of the new look fishbowl T6H-5307A (supposedly the 700 series) that they either gave or sold to the NYPD and is now renumbered and repainted as NYPD Highway District #3 - Vehicle # 3301 visible from the Grand Central Parkway?
Orion has delivered the first two of 47 hard seat (local) version of the CNG coach. They are #495 and 497.
Mr t__:^)
Are they ready for service yet? I thought that QS was getting 140 CNG hard-seaters? Must have been a rumor.
MM2000
"I thought that QS was getting 140 CNG hard-seaters?"
Well 82 + 74 = 156 ... unless you know something else, maybe that's the number you we remembering ?
Mr t__:^)
Are the seats set up like the TAs or are all the forward facing seats doubles? Also wanted to know the color of the seats. I would guess gray. Thanks!
~~KayBee
"Are the seats set up like the TAs or are all the forward facing seats doubles? Also wanted to know the color of the seats. I would guess gray."
Seats are configured just like the QS Express (soft seat) version, i.e. some fwd faceing & some side facing.
Seat color ... no it's not one piece grey ... they have a couple of very interesting features. First buff to tell me gets a all expense paid round trip to Jamaica .............. Queens ;-)
(If no answer in a few days I'll tell you all)
BTW, both our new ones are having all their fluids changed and in general a though going over to make sure ready for customer service.
Mr t
Red Seats like the 275-334 series?
FR
Nope, sorry no winner here.
There was a clue by someone else on another thread.
Is it that they have the yellow tape to signal for the passenger signal(like MSBA and the TA Orions)
Not on the seat ... sorry, but feel free to try again.
Mr t__:^)
Are the seats blue and padded like the MTA Orions?
They are grey & padded, but there's a second very visable unique feature ... at least it jumped out and shouted at me when I saw it.
Mr t__:^)
Front door lift?
No Hank it relates to the seat.
Mr t__:^)
I'll say it's reclinable. Now this is getting annoying, will you tell us the answer already?
I forgot to change my name to be consistent with SubTalk, and I'll probably forget later too, so I'll post an otherwise useless message.
Sorry for posting YET AGAIN, but I apologize, I have just read your message describing the feature. I have seen this on the TA RTSes with upholstered, uncushioned seats.
With this delivery, will the 700 series DC reject Orions move out of local service? I'm sure ex-bus riders will appreciate the semi-padded seats.
Why should we retire/replace a bus with low milage vs. a RTS with 400,000 or more on it ?
BTW, those last 50 diesel Orions on the WMATA order weren't "rejected" by them, then were having trouble getting funding, so were trying to delay or reduce the order by 50. Orion made NYC-DOT an offer that was very timely. The only unique problem with them that I'm aware of is the destination sign ... Orion has since changed the vendor.
Reminder: These comments come from a Subway Buff who happens to work for a bus company.
Mr t__:^)
That's interesting. I always thought it was a cash flow problem/constraint that kept those 50 Orions from going to WMATA. WMATA clearly needs buses. Many of the Flxible Metros are now getting rehabbed at this time. The order was for 262 buses and WMATA has 212 of them (most 40 footer and some 30 foot models). At the time in late 1997/early 1998 WMATA announced the arrival of the new buses and that the last of the GM fishbowls and Flxible new looks would be retired by the end of 1998. Most of them were withdrawn from service, but you still can find them in service during rush hours. WMATA clearly doesn't have the resources of the NYCTA - and I think it's impressive of the way they are able to maintain service on many long demanding routes with fleet that has lots of old buses.
Wayne
Guess my inquiry wasn't clear (d'oh!) I was merely asking if those 700's will remain in local service or will they move to the ex-bus side? And what's wrong with a slope backed RTS with over 400K on it? ;-) Seriously though, don't the MCI's rivial that mileage?
The MCIs are about 100 to 200 miles behind the RTS fleet, that why we're spending serious money on them one or two at a time, this month it's 927s turn ... she looks weird right now.
700s have hard, blue, seats, they'll stay in local service.
Mr t__:^)
Hello Thurston - I don't know what you meant by "hard" seats, but I believe the 700's have cushioned transit seats (as contrasted with the cushioned suburban seats on the 500's). How are these cushioned seats holding up on the 700's? I was on a few Green Bus Lines 5500's a few months back and was pleasantly surprised that the blue seats were in pretty good shape.
Sorry no winner in my little trivia contest. Either one or both of our new "hard seat" Orion V CNG are doing passenger service. I know this because we had a farebox problem last night.
- 700s have blue cushion seats, vinyl I think. I saw #700 this AM and the seats appear to still be in good shape.
- 500s are fabric covered cushioned seats.
- 400s have a grey hard shell with a couple of fabric patches (seat & back) vs. cushions. We're able to easily replace the patches in case of vandalism. The INTERESTING feature is a hole in the seat bottom right thru the fabric patch with a stainless steel button. You can almost get your pinkey in that hole. Hope that doesn't become a problem.
I've had fun with this ...hope you all did too.
Mr t__:^)
All the new MTA buses from 1998-1999 have a little hole in the seat in case of vandalism.
MM2000
Sorry about that ... I'm just a subway buff & employee here.
No, the holes are there so when it rains and people put their wet bags and umbrellas on the seats, the water will drain out through the hole and the seat will be dryer.
Isn't that what keeps the pad anchored to the seat mold? I figured it was some type of fastener.
-Hank
If you see any ommissions,,errors,,,please let me know,,,--EXACTLY ---what you see---verbatim
Route Number First Line Reading
2nd Line readng
3rd Line Reading
4th LIne Reading
Thanks you
Format
route number with 1st line
2nd line
3rd line
4th line
QBx1 PELHAM BAY STATION
VIA CO-OP CITY 5-4 -3-2-1
PELHAM BAY STATION
VIA C0-OP CITY 1 2 3 4 5
BELLAMY LOOP
VIA CO-OP CITY 4-=3 2 1
ROOSEVELT AV--FLUSHING
VIA CO-OP CITY 4--3-2-1-
SECTION 5 SHUTTE
PELHAM BAY STATION
ASCH LOOP SHUTTLE
PELHAM BAY STATION
PELHAM BAY STATION
VIA CO-OP CITY 4-3-2-1
----------------------------------
Q6
SUTPHIN
165-JAMAICA
SUTPHIN
JFK AIRPORT---POST OFFICE
SUTPHIN
HILLSIDE AV---JAMAICA
SUTPHIN
ROCKAWAY BL---BAISLEY PARK
-------------------------------
Q7 READINGS
ROCKAWAY
JFK AIRPORT--CARGO AREA
ROCKAWAY
EUCLID--BROOKLYN
ROCKAWAY
SUTPHIN BLV---BAISLEY PARK
ROCKAWAY
CROSS BAY BL--OZONE PARK
ROCKAWAY
94 ST & 101 AV---JHS 210
ROCKWAY
LAFAYETTE ST--JHS 202
ROCKAWAY
145 ST ---SOUTH JAMAICA
ROCKAWAY
147 ST ----SOUTH JAMAICA
---------------------------------
Q8 READINGS
101 AV
165 ST --JAMAICA
101 AV
EUCLID AV----BROOKLYN
101 AV
SUTPHIN BL-JAMAICA
101 AV
ROCKAWAY BL--BAISLEY PARK
101 AV
94 ST---JHS 210
-------------------------------
Q9 READINGS
LINCOLN
ROCKAWAY BL---SOUTH JAMAICA
LINCOLN
165 ST---JAMAICA
---------------------------------
Q10 READINGS
LEFFERTS-ROCKAWAY
JFK AIRPORT
LEFFERTS--ROCKAWAY
QUEEENS BL--KEW GARDENS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
LEFFERTS---CONDUIT
JFK AIRPORT
LEFFERTS---CONDUIT
QUEENS BL--KEW GARDENS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
LEFFFERTS
ROCKAWAY BL-SO,OZONE PARK
LEFFERTS
QUEENS BL---KEW GARDENS
----------
Q10A EXPRESS
JFK AIRPORT
Q10A EXPRESS
QUEENS BL---KEW GARDENS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
================================
Q11 READINGS
WOODAHVEN
QUEENS BL---ELMHURST
WOODHAVEN
HOWARD BEACH
WOODHAVEN
HAMILTON BEACH
WOODHAVEN
LIBERTY AV---OZONE PARK
WOODHAVEN
LAFAYETTE ST--JHS 202
WOODHAVEN
HOWARD BEACH
HAMILTON BEACH
==============================
Q18 READINGS
30 AV
8 ST --ASTORIA
30 AV
GRAND AV---MASPETH
30 AV
51 ST & 31 AV---BRYANT HS
-------------------------------
Q19 READINGS
ASTORIA BL
102 ST ---E ELMHURST
Q19 ASTORIA BL
21 ST----ASTORIA
--------------------------------
Q21 READINGS
CROSS BAY
BEACH 116 ST ROCKAWAY PK
CROSS BAY
CONDUIT AV---LINDENWOOD
CROSS BAY
4 RD--BR CHANNEL
CROSS BAY
BEACH 112 ST----STELLA MARIS
CROSS BAY
BEACH 104 ST --JHS 180
----------------------------
Q22 READINGS
ROCKAWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 21 ST--FAR ROCKAWAY
ROCKAWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 169 ST ====ROXBURY
ROCKWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 116 ST ----ROCKAWAY PK
ROCKWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 104 ST --JHS 180
ROCKWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 51 ST---ARVERNE
ROCKAWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 59 ST ----ARVERNE
ROCKAWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 147 ST===NEWPONSIT
ROCKAWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 222 ST====BREEZY POINT
ROCKWAY BEACH BL
BEACH 100 ST ---BCHS
----------------------------------
Q23 READINGS
108 ST
DITMARS BL---E ELMHURST
108 ST
METROPOLITAN ---FOREST HILLS
108 ST
UNION TPKE-----FOREST HILLS
108 ST
62 DR---FOREST HILLS
Are these on all NYCDOT buses, or are they by company? (ie, Only Queens Surface has the QBx1 sign, only Command has the BQM1 sign...)
-Hank
Q25 READINGS
PARSONS
5 AV & 119 ST ---COLLEGE POINT
PARSONS
ROOSEVELT AV--FLUSHING
PARSONS
JEWEL AV---QUEENS COLG
PARSONS
HORACE HARDING EXP
-------------------------------------
Q29 80 ST
ROOCSEVELT AV---JACKSON HTS
Q29 80 ST
MYRTLE AV--GLENDALE
Q29 80 ST
QUEENS BL----ELMHURST
Q33 83 ST
LAGUARDIA ----MAIN TERMINAL
Q33 82 ST
ROOSEVELT AV---JACKSON HTS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
Q33 83 ST
23 V & 94 ST---E ELMHURST
Q34 PARSONS
JAMIACA AV----JAMAICA
Q34 PARSONS
WILLETS PT BL----WHITESTONE
Q34 PARSONS
ROOSEVELT AV----FLUSHING
==----------------------------------
Q35 READINGS
MARINE PKWY
NOSTRAND AV---BROOKLYN
MARINE PKWY
BEACH 112 ST---STELLA MARIS
BEACH 100 ST----BCHS
MARINE PKWY
RIIS PARK
MARINE PKWY
GLEWOOD RD---MIDWOOD HS
----------------------------------
Q37 READINGS
111 ST
QUEENS BL ----KEW GARDENS
111 ST
13 AV---SO OZONE PARK
111 ST
121 ST --JHS 226
111 ST
LAFAYETTE AV---JHS 202
111 ST
150 AV------SO OZONE PARK
==================================
Q38 ELIOT
60 AV & OTIS---CORONA
Q38 ELIOT
62 DR & 108 ST ----FOREST HILLS
Q39 FOREST
QUEENS PLZ---LONG IS CITY
Q39 FOREST
COOPER AV--RIDGEWOOD
Q40 142 ST
HILLSIDE AV---JAMAICA
Q40 142 ST
135 AV --SO JAMAICA
------=======================J=7======
Q41 READINGS
127 ST
165 ST---JAMAICA
127 ST
164 AV---LINENWOOD
127 ST
LAFAYETTE AV--JHS 202
127 ST
101 AV--JHS 210
127 ST
LIBERTY AV--RICHMOND HILL
///////////////////////////////////
Q45 69 ST
ROOSEVELT AV---JACKSON HTS
Q45 69 ST
ELIOT AV---JUNIPER VLY
Q47 73 ST
ROOSEVELT AV---JACKSON HTS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
Q47 74 ST
LAGUARDIA -MARINE AIR
Q47 73 ST
DITMARS BL=----ST JOHNS PREP
-------------------------------
Q19A/Q51 READINGS
21 ST
QUEENS PLZ ---LONG IS CITY
21 ST
31 ST ASTORIA
21 ST
82 ST-------JACKSON HTS
---------------------------------
Q19B/ Q52 READINGS
35 AV
74 ST--JACKSON HTS
35 AV
102 ST---E ELMHURST
---------------------------------
Q53 EXPRESS
WOODSIDE
Q53 EXPRESS
ROCKAWAY PARK
????????????????????????????????????
Q57 EXPRESS
JAMAICA
Q57 EXPRESS
FAR ROCKAWAY
------------------------------------
Q60 READINGS
QUEENS BL
33 ST--SUNNYSIDE
QUEENS BL
109 AV---SO JAMAICA
QUEENS BL
2 AV & 60 ST----MANHATTAN
QUEENS BL
47 ST---SUNNYSIDE
QUEENS BL
ARCHER AV--JAMAICA
------------------------------
Q65 164 ST
JAMAICA AV--JAMAICA
Q65 164 ST
14 AV & 110 ST ---COLLEGE POINT
Q65 164 ST
ROOSEVELT AV----FLUSHIING
Q66 NORTHERN
MAIN ---FLUSHING
Q66 NORTHERN
QUEENS PLZ---LONG IS CITY
Q66 NORTHERN
51 ST---WOODSIDE
Q67 CALVARY
METRO AV---MIDDLE VLG
Q67 CALVARY
69 ST ---MASPETH
Q67 CALVARY
QUEENS PLZ---LONG IS CITY
Q69 HUNTERS PT FERRY
FREE SHUTTLE
Q69 LIRR STATION
FREE SHUTTLE
Q72 JUNCTION
LAGUARDIA --MAIN TERM
Q72 JUNCTION
DITMARS BM---E ELMHURST
Q72 JUNCTION
QUEENS BL--REGO PARK
---------------------
please explain Q19A/Q51,Q19B/Q52.will these route numbers soon
be changing?
ANDY/ULMER PK
I beleive these are only proposals
I only work for the FDNY
Steve
I did not know there was a Q57???????????
B46M
A Q111 LTD Variation
Q101 SIGNS
STEINWAY
2 AV & 59 ST ,,MANHATTAN
STEINWAY
19 AV--ASTORIA
LIMITED
RIKERS IS
RIKERS IS
PARKING LOT
LIMITED
QUEENS PLZ---LONG IS CITY
Q101 QUEENSBORO BRIDGE
FREE SHUTTLE
................................
Q102 READINGS
31 ST
ASTORIA BL--ASTORIA
31 ST
ROOSEVELT IS---COLER./G"WTR
31 ST
QUEENS PLZ--LONG IS CITY
31 ST
ROOSEVELT IS--G'WTR/ COLER
-----------------------------------
Q103 VERNON
ASTORIA BL--ASTORIA
Q103 VERNON
BORDEN AV---HUNTERS PT
Q03 VERNON
HUNTERS PT FERRY
Q104 BROADWAY
11 ST & 34 AV---ASTORIA
Q104 BROADWAY
48 ST---SUNNYSIDE
---------------------------------
Q9A / Q109 READINGS
LINDEN
165 ST ----JAMAICA
LINDEN ----
ROCKAWAY BL---SO JAMAICA
---------------------------------
Q110 READINGS
JAMIACA AV
PARSONS BL---JAMAICA
JAMAICA AV
225 ST--BELMONT PK
JAMIACA AV-
179 PL---JAMAICA
JAMAICA AV
212 ST --QUEENS VLG
-----------------------------------
Q111 READINGS
BREWER
HILLSIDE AV---JAMAICA
BREWER
F LEWIS BL--ROSEDALE
BREWER
FARMERS BL---SPRGFLD GDNS
BREWER
137 AV ---ROCHDALE VLG
BREWER
PENINSULA BL---CEDARDHURST
BBEWER
FOCH BL--SO JAMIACA
BREWER
259 ST----ROSEDALE
BREWER
SPRFLD BL---SGHS
-------------------------------
Q112 LIBERTY
PARSONS===JAMAICA
Q112 LIBERTY
ROCKAWAY BL---OZONE PARK
Q112 LIBERTY
132 ST ---RICHMND HILL
-------------------------------
Q113 BREWER
SEAGIRT BL--FAR ROCKAWAY
Q113 LIMITED
JAMIACA
Q113 LIMITED
FAR ROCKAWAY
----------------------------------
Q10 /Q115 READINGS
LEFFERTS
121 ST----JHS 226
LEFERTS
LAFAYETTE ST---JHS 202
LEFFERTS
165 ST----JAMAICA AV
------------------------------------
Q22A / Q122 READINGS
FAR ROCKWAY
BAYSWATER
MAMEOAKE ST---IS 53
---------------------------------------
Q22 . / Q122 READINGS
ROCAWAY BEACH BL
NAMEOAKE ST---IS 53
-----------------------------------------
Q65A / Q165 READINGS
JEWEL AV
QUEENS BL--FOREST HILLS
JEWEL AV
164 ST ---KEW G HILLS
JEWEL AV
76 RD---JHS 168
JEWEL AV
KISSENA BL--KEW G HILLS
------------------------------------
B100 FILLMORE
56 DR.---MILL BASIN
B100 FILLMOER
KINGS HWY STATION
B100 FILLMORE
FLATLANDS AV---SO SHORE HS
B103 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN BROOKLYN
B103 EXPRESS
CANARSIE
B103 STARRRETT CITY
EXPRESS
NOT IN SERVICE
TRAINING COACH
NEXT BUS PLEASE
SEE SIGN BELOW
GARAGE
WELCOME ABOARD
NEW YORK CITY
THE BIG APPLE
NYCDOT
SPECIAL
SHUTTLE
EXPRESS
LOCAL
COMMAND BUS COMPANY
GREEN BUS LINES
JAMAICA BUSES
LIBERTY LINES EXPRESS
NEW YORK BUS SERVICE
QUEENS SURFACE
TRIBORO COACH
PARSON OUR DELAY
NEXT WEEKK
EXPRESS AND SPECIALS
STEVE
Format
Route Number 1st line
2nd line
3rd line
4th line
BXM1
EXPRESS
RIVERDALE
EXPRESS
VIA LEX
SUPER EXPRESS
RIVERDALE
EXPRESS
RIVERDALE
VIA INWOOD
SUPER EXPRESS
VIA LEX
__________________________
BXM2
EXPRESS
RIVERDALE
EXPRESS
VIA 7 AV
_____________________________
BXM3
EXPRESS
YONKERS
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
------------------------------
BM4A
EXPRESS
GRAND CONCOURSE
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
__________________
BXM4B / XM5
EXPRESS
GRAND CONCOUURSE
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
SUPER EXPRESS
KATONAH
______________________
BXM6
EXPRESS
PARCHESTER
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
_______________---------------
BXM7
EXPRESS
CO=OP CITY
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
_______________
BXM9
EXPRESS
THROGS NECK
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
_________________
BXM10
EXPRESS
MORRIS PARK
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
EXPRESS
MORRIS PARK
VIA PARKCHESTER
+++++++++++++++++++++
BXM11
EXPRESS
WHITE PLAINS RD
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
EXPRESS
WHITE PLAINS RD
VIA BRONX ZOO
_______________________
BXM7A / BXM17
EXPRESS
PELHAM BAY
EXPRESS
VIA 5 AV
___________________________
BXM18
EXPRESS
RIVERDALE
EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN--WALL ST
EXPRESSS
RIVERDALE
VIA WEST SIDE
=============================
BXM7B / MX27
EXPRESS
CITY ISLAND
EXPESS
VIA 5 AV
___________________________
QM1
EXPRESS
FRESH MEADOWS
EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
_____________________\
QM2
EXPRESS
BAYSIDE
EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
SUPER EXPRESS
BAYSIDE
EXPRESS
BAYSIDE
VIA MITCHELL GARDENS
___________________________
QM3
EXPESS
DOUGLTESTON
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
__________________
QM4 EXPRESS
VIA JEWEL
QM4 EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
QM4 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
_________________
QM1A . / QM5
EXPRESS
GLEN OAKS
EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
EXPRESS
GR MEADOWS---GLEN OAKS
___________________________
QM2A / QM6
EXPRESS
CLEARVIEW
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
SUPER EXPRESS
CLEARVIEW
____________________________
QM1A / QM7
EXPESSS
NORTH SHORE TOWERS
EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
__________________________
QM1 /QMB
EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ---WALL ST
EXRESS
FRESH MEAODWS
QM1 EXPRESS
188 ST / CHEVY CHASE
_____________________
QM1A EXPRESS
DOWNTWON --WALL
QM1A EXPRESS
GLEN OAKS
QM1A EXPRESS
NORTH SHORE TOWERS
______________________
QM10
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
EXPRSS
VIA 3 AV
EXPESS
LEFRAK CITY
_________________________
QM11
EXPRESS
DOWNTWON --WALL ST
EXPRESS
LEFRAK CITY
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QM12
EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
EXORESS
VIA 3 AV
EXPRESS
FOREST HILLS
____________________________
QM15 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
QM15 EXPRESS
LINDENWOOD
QM15 EXRESS
HOWARD BEACH
QM16 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
QM16 EXPRESS
ROCK AWAY PARK
QM17 EXPRESS\
VIA 6 AV
QM17 EXPRESS
FAR ROCKWAY
QM18 EXPRESS
LEFFERTS BL
QM18 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
QM21 EXPRESS
ROCHDALE VILLAGE
QM21 EXPRESS
VIA MADISON
QM22 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
QM22 EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
QM22 EXPRESS
JACKSON HEIGHTS
QM23 EXPRESS
PENN STATION
QM23 EXPRESS
BROOKLYN MANOR
QM24 EXPRESS
VIA 6 AV
QM24 EXPRESS
VIA 3 AV
QM24 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ---WALL ST
QM24 EXRESS
GLENDALE
BM1 EXPRESS
DOWTOWN ---WALL ST
MIDTOWN ---VIA MADISON
BM1 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ONLY
BM1 SUPER EXPRESS
MIDTOWN ONLY
BM1 EXPRESS
MILL BASIN
BM1 SUPER EXPRESS
MILL BASIN
BM2 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN---WALL ST
MIDTOWN VIA MADISON
BM2 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ONLY
BM2 SUPER EXPRESS
MIDTOWN ONLY
BM2 EXPRESS
CANARSIE
BM2 EXPRESS
STARRETT CITY
BM3 EXPRESS
DOWNTWON ---WALL ST
MIDTOWN VIA MADISON
BM3 EXPRESS
DOWWNTOWN ONLY
BM3 SUPER EXPESS
MIDTOWN ONLY
BM3 EXPRESS
KINGS BAY
BM3 SUPER EXPRESS
KINGS BAY
BM4 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ---WALL ST
MIDTWON VIA MADISON
BM4 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN ONLY
BM4 SUPER EXPRESS
MIDTOWN ONLY
BM4 EXPRESS
GERRITSEN BEACH
BM4 SUPER EXPRESS
GERRITSEN BEACH
______________________________
BQM1 ./BQ1
EXPESS
MIDTWON VIA MADISON
EXPRESS
STARRETT CITY
EXPRESS
CANARSIE
________________________
BMJ1./ S1
SPECIAL
MEADOWLANDS
SPECIAL
SHEEPSHEAD BAY
+++++++++++++++++++
BMJ2 . / S 2
SPECIAL
MEADOWLANDS
SPECIAL
FLATBUSH
KINGS HWY STATION
STARRETT CITY
_______________________
BW4 / S4
SPECIAL
YONKERS RACEWAY
SPECIAL
FLATBUSH
KINGS HWY STATION
SPECIAL
STARRETT CITY
BAY RIDGE
++++++++++++++++++
BQ5 . / S5
SPECIAL
AQUEDUCT
SPECIAL
BELMONT PARK
SPECIAL
KINGS HWY STATION
BAY RIDGE
========================
BQ10 / S10
SPECIAL
AQUEDUCT
SPECIAL
BELMONT PARK
SPECIAL
FLATBUSH
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BQ11 . / S11
SPECIAL
AQUEDUCT
SPECIAL
BELMONT PARK
SPECIAL
KINGS HWY STATION
SPECIAL
CONEY ISLAN D
+================================
BQ12 / S12
SPECIAL
SHEA STADIUM
SPECIAL
FLATBUSH
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For the Command Buses add "area" into the Downtown sign readings. It should be:
BM2 EXPRESS
DOWNTOWN---WALL ST AREA
MIDTOWN VIA MADISON
for all the routes. Also the "NOT IN SERVICE Destination sign for Command Bus #4961 reads as follows:
NOT IN and then SERVICE as opposed to just NOT IN SERVICE on one line. Hope this helps.
~~KayBee
One more thing i forgot to mention. When the front and side destination signs on Command Bus #4961 read "NOT IN" "SERVICE" the sign in the back of the bus says OFF. I though that was interesting.
~~Kevin
I created a new club on yahoo for all of you people that are interested in the Westside Bus Depot. clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thewestsidedepotbusclub
Peace Out
-Clayton
Hi Everyone,
I would just like to say that I have my very first webpage coming out this Sunday. It will have NJT and Academy Bus Photos. NYCT photos will come very soon. My address is http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4201. I welcome all of you to come visit. I would also like to say that if anyone is interested in contributing photos, they are more then welcome to. If you contribute you will get full credit for taking the photo.
- Jason
Took my first ride on a low floor CNG bus number was (I think) 805. This was on the B9 (Bay Ridge to Kings Plaza). Matter of fact their were two low floors one right after the other.
I find that this is less standing room if you ask me and you do lose the space for the front wheels. Since I am not effected by stepping up onto the bus it wasn't such a big improvement for me. I do like that they brought back the "straps" to hang on to and the push button on the pulls for stop requests.
I also think you will lose TOO much space with a wheel chair rider. That looks like a tight turn off the front ramp.
Okay, now I just notice this (but was on vacation for 2 weeks) the B7 is now running down Kings Hwy to Coney Island Ave and not just rush hours. They even added the B7 sticker to the bus stop signs.
When did this happen?
Is this 24/7 or until 10pm or somthing?
B82 ARE STILL BUNCHED though >G< saw FOUR of them noes to bumper, but had to double check to make sure one wasn't a 7 >g<.
Sept 13 to Coney Island Av and Caton Avenue
Correction,,Coney Island Av and Kings Hwy ,,ONLY
b7 started runnig to coney island av as of 9/13. they run from 6a-8p but other times they terminate at kings hwy and flatbush av.
the b82 does bunch up,its two depots doing the work. let one depot run it,and they will run better. my pick is ulmer park to do all the work.
i totally agree with that sugestion. The B82 is run by East New York and Ulmer Park Depots and sometimes it seems to me that it is stll being run like it was the still the B5 and B50; Some of the buses come close to their schedule, but one too many of them (Ulmer Park B5), While the other has this strange power to disappear of the face of the earth for a long period of time and then show up extremly late bunched up together as though every thing is sweet (East New york B50)and it does not seem that both of these depots are working together as a team to run this route so alot of the time there is unessesary bunching when there is no heavy traffic at all. Ulmer Park will atleast have the buses show up and not this mad dash to Rockaway Parkway to show up on time after being late for most of the route. Ulmer it is