New York City needs lots of Compressed Natural Gas buses. The "stink wagons" in service today smell from the fumes of diesel fuel.
Bring on the CNG buses like MARTA.
Well, they are coming the first 55 of 190 of New Flyer C40LF CNG Low Floors are here!. Gleason will be a all Natural Gas Garage when the delivery process is finised. Also when Coliseum is reconstructed that will be a all CNG garage too! So expect to see CNG hit the bronx streets by Late 2000-Early 2001! Plus the TA is looking a the Hybrid-Electic market. 5 Orion VI Hybrids and 1 TMC RTS Hybrid are already in service out of Manhattanville with 5 more Orion VI Hybrids and 5 NovaBUS RTS Hybrid on the way so keep a look out for those. The rest of the Orion Hybrids are due by Fall and the RTSs are due by December 1999.
Trevor
It does seem however that the relatively miniscule orders of CNGs and hybrids are insignificant when compared with the massive orders of diesel MCIs, Novas, Artics and Orions which have just arrived and are continuing to come. The TA seems to have a farily low-level committment to any broad based conversion of equipment. What CNGs are planned for Coliseum and where is that depot?
Old and new Coliseum Depots are in the same location----just east of West Farms Square in The Bronx,bordered by the CrossBronx and the Sheridan Expressways.You can't miss the HUGE excavation site for the new depot.
It was rumored to me that some More Orion V & VI and New Flyer Low Floor CNGs will be slated for the Coliseum Depot. No Talks of going to NovaBUS for some CNGs!!!
Trevor
I have seen the future, and it is Ultra-low-emissions diesel/electric. You won't see a mass conversion to CNG on the TA side of things. CNG increases the GVWR of the bus, changes the ride quality, and requires large open areas to fuel. Diesel/electric can be immediately used every depot, and there is little infrastructure investment that would need to be made, unlike with CNG, which needs pumps, large open space, and a nearby high-pressure main.
-Hank
That is crucial point for why the TA is very reluctant to adopt CNG. The monetary funds needed to convert all 14 or more depots could be spent on more buses and/or improvement to the depots themselves. I think that Hybrid Electric technology is the wave of the future and costs alot less in the long run than going full CNG.
Peace
DaShawn
The reason you won't be seeing CNG Manhattan depots is simple. It is the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard)reason. Community boards in which depots are located have been sent feelers by the TA and no one likes the idea of CNG tanks near their homes. Jackie Gleason Depot's neighbor is a cemetery and its tenants haven't complained yet. When new depots are built, chances are, based on location, they will be CNG depots. But there are no current plans to build depots in Manhattan. Mr. Eisenstein also lists other valid reasons.
Thanks Alan, it makes alot of sense and it also reminds me of when the TA wanted to operate the first methanol powered buses out of Mother Hale/146th Street. Everyone screemed NIMBY, but at the same time with all those straigt diesels the asthma rate has increased dramatically! I hope that with the Hybrid Electric technology it is the one alternative that no one starts crying NIMBY to.
Peace
DaShawn
There won't be, because there are no changes neccesary at all.
-Hank
OK...the madness has to stop! This morning while at a stop light, I had the joy of watching one of the new Orion CNG soft-seat express buses on the Q53 while on the other side of the bus I was on, a badly scratched up CNG RTS on the QM10 (with some rather unhappy looking folks on it, perhaps seeing what I saw)....talk about life not being fair.
I can understand where there is a shortage of equipment, a situation like this happening. For some reason though, based on what I saw, one can't help but ask: is there really a shortage of equipment? To take it one step further, this sort of thing seems to be common place on the Stengel originating Orions (i.e., Q74 and X51).
Anyone care to run with this one??
Mark-N-Ride
6137 is all scratched up in the back.I saw it on Jamaica ave and Parsons blvd 2 weeks ago.
Command is using express buses especially the TMC RTS CNGs on the B100 especially the last few weeks. The majority of the 1984 and 1985 GMC RTS are now stored. I have seen MCI Classics and even the new Orion CNGs on the B100 too. The B103 is considered an express route (cause it has limited stops) and uses the MCIs TMCs and Orions which all have soft seats. The B103 schedule says that every bus is supposed to be wheel chair accessible but Command still uses MCI Classic everyday. I am not sure if Command will be receiving any hard seat Orion Vs.
The bus depot which used to be at 54th St. & 9th Ave. in Manhattan was torn down some time ago and another building is being built there. I have not been past the site for a while now, but is a rebuilding of the old depot or is the new building intended for some other use?
It's going to be the new Rapid command center
Pardon my ignorance, but what is the rapid command center?
Rapid Command Center is for Subway
He left out the word 'transit', as in Rapid Transit Command Center. The entire subway system will eventually be controlled from this one building. That building is going to be the command and control center for the subway system, otherwise known as 'Command Center' (ie, 'Pelham 1-2-3 calling Command Center')
-Hank
Get the stink wagons off the streets and run trolleys or trackless trolleys instead. They don't pollute the air and are fun to ride. CNF buses have high pressure tanks and can be hazardous to you health.
And trolleys and trolley buses are mated to a fixed guidway, and cannot be detoured or routed around obstructions. If someone stops on the tracks ahead of you, you're screwed. CNG bus tanks are not hazardous, as I have seen first-hand how they test them. You're more at risk from your backyard barbacue tank exploding than a CNG tank on a vehicle. But again, the future will be ULE Diesel-electrics.
-Hank
AMEN!
Peace!
DaShawn
And transit agencies will have to be forced to give up diesels. ULE diesel-electrics are too "new-fangled" for a lot of bus managers. I kinda predict that Baltimore will get ETB's long before ULE's.
Diesel-electric is a proven technology nearly as old as the internal combustion engine. Every locomotive in the world uses diesel-electric technology. Electric motors and batteries are simple devices (infinately simpler than internal combustion) Everything involved with ULE Diesel-electrics is proven technology, and can be done off-the-shelf, with componants that already exist. as they can even use the same control systems used in electric transit vehicles the world over.
-Hank
PS-Before someone nitpicks me on my 'every locomotive' statement, a true locomotive is completely self-propelled, while an electric locomotive is truely just a motor on wheels, not truly self-propelled.
Diesel electric or CNG electric I expect will soon be the new standard.
A 140 hp engine running at constant speed at peak efficiency lets the bus run like it has a 280 HP diesel.
More likely diesel. Again, the huge infrastructure investment for CNG.
-Hank
Wasn't there a proposal about ten years ago to run ETBs on Fordham Road and Church Avenue? The New Electric Railway Journal had New York as a "proposed" location for ETBs in its annual listings for several years.
I always like riding the Q75 to 179th Street Station. I use to ride the old GM buses on this route. The grade of 188th Street caused the bus driver to put the accelerator peddler to the floor and bus ran at 5mph up the hill. I'm surprised the engine didn't have a "heart attack" so to speak.
I liked the old fareboxes with the holes on the top and the rotating disc. It must of been A wind-up clockwork mechanism. What do you think?
They were called Johnson Fareboxes. They were replaced when the fare went from 15 to 20 cents. The next farebox NYCT used took quarters and was introduced ont he special World's Fair Bus Routes (the first limited stop lines) which cost 25cents. I knew the fare was going up when I saw these boxes appear on regular buses and when all had the new box, up went the fare!
For a while the transit musuem had the first type of fareboxes for sale along with the "World's Fair" type. I think they might still have some of the latter.In their last days the latter fareboxes were painted MTA blue.
A while agon there were threads about the MTA and charter service. Just today I happened to see in a public notice in the Daily News the FTA rules on this. The MTA said it got many requests from various groups for charter (or "character" bus service), which were all listed. But it will continue to offer special service "only for public safety" (forgot the exact quote), which basically means "emergencies".
I couldn't find this notice on the Daily News site, but it was on p.KLI 81 of the Brooklyn edition.
I'm surprised that the MTA doesn't serious consider making their buses for charter. It would mean more money for all those vice presidents to pay for their limo service. They don't take public transit.
They can't run charter service because it would amount to unfair competition. The MTA, as a public agency, uses tax money to subsidize bus purchases. That is a significant advantage over a private company, which must raise its capital from taxable means (loans, bonds, stock sales, fares, etc) to purchase buses. That's just a basic part of it. Transit agencies get special tax abatements on diesel fuel (as do, I believe, private operators that operate franchise service).
There is a federal law that prevents buses purchased with public money from being used for charters. There is some loophole that is used by the NJT contractors (that is endorsed by NJT Corp) that allows the buses that are owned by NJT Corp to be used on charters. NJT Bus Operations does not do charter work.
-Hank
AND private operators who receive buses provided by the local transit agency CANNOT use those buses for charter work, even on weekends. They must use the buses that they own.
They can run charters if there is no private operator willing or able to provide the service. If they do they must cover all fully allocated costs.
[AND private operators who receive buses provided by the local transit agency CANNOT use those buses for charter work, even on weekends. They must use the buses that they own.]
That is exactly right. I am wondering if the musuem buses could be chartered or are they still OWNED by the TA?
Mr t__:^)
Your point is well taken. But listen to this. Since Belmont Racetrack is open, I think the MTA should provide soft seat buses that would make limited stops to the racetrack for the same $1.50 fare. Can't beat that.
It seems that NYCT sends their buses to a shop on Route 112 in Coram for painting. Not just NYCT buses, I've seen Command, QS, Triboro and Green Bus. Also, I have seen Orions and RTS buses in MTA and Long Island Bus livery at a facility in Holbrook along with Suffolk Transit Flxibles. I also saw the Port Authority Airport Bus. Maybe this facility handles repairs that are too involved for the depot mechanics.
When the 100 st depot was in effect, was the M98, 101, and 102 over there? What other bus routes were there?
I remember 100th Street Depot had M98 only for short time and give it to Manhattanville when they open the new Depot. They had M86, M96/M106, M101, M102, M103, M35, X91 and X92 before 100st Depot close last year.
Hi; at one time the 72 and 79 were also out of 100th St. Depot.Would anyone know whether the M72 was known as the 6?
The M-72 was never out of 100th Street. It was in Manhattanville and 54th Street before West Side. The M-30 was known as the M-6 and prior to the formation of MABSOTA was 6 when it run by 5th Ave Coach. Also the M-72 was created about 10 years ago when midtown crosstown routes were changed.
The M-30 was in Manhattanville and 54 th Street. When it was run by 5th Ave Coach it was operated out of 132nd Street.
The M-79 was once the M-17 was opearted out of Amsterdam,54th Street and very early in MABSTOA and 5th Ave Coach days 100th St
Your info.re 100 St. rtes. is on the money.In the N.Y.C. Omnibus and early MABSTOA days, the 79th,86th,96th and the 116th Sts. lines ran out of 100 St. along with the TB line(now the M35). The #3 and #4 Lex. Ave. buses (Omnibus) ran from there also and later the 101 and 102 after the Manhattan Aves. became one-way and MABSTOA "swallowed" Fifth Ave. Coach (which had incorporated Omnibus) and Surface Transit Corp.(which ran the Third Ave. bus, the 101).
I noticed buses going up hill are very slow. Does it have to do with the engines or the governing?
hen its empty, its still slow. If the remove the governor Im sure they will go much faster.
BTW: any pictures of the Orion6 hybrids?
They won't go any faster because they weigh approximately 26,000 pounds empty plus whatever the passengers weigh. Turning the governor up won't always make 'em go uphill faster; sometimes the limitations are within the transmission (gearing, etc.)
The governor limits the fuel once max rpm has been reached. As the bus is building speed it will hit the shift points and move into the next higher gear before the engine hits the governor, unless it is a manual trans. and the driver needs to shift it. In that case you shift when you hit the gorvernor.
The HP rating, torque output and the gearing control rate of acceleration on flat ground and on hills. Most newer buses have enough power to acceleratre going up hill.
I'm currently in Norfolk,VA and saw 4 ex NYCTA RTS buses in a new life-They're being used as airport shuttles and charters for a transportation company here. Does anyone have listing of who these old buses are sold to?
WOW, would I have loved to see that when I was going to school down there 13-15 years ago. At that time, all they had at the airport was vans, and it was such a contrast to the NY area airports. (I remember seeing a fishbowl running in some kind of private service, and this may have been ex-TA. I think it was a 6300 series, IIRC. What are the numbers?
Last week on I=95 in Virginai outside of Washington, I saw an old Command fishbowl #607.
Academy Tours recently pruchased a number of 1981 RTS from the TA for their NY-Hoboken route (in addition to the RTS' that they already have).
According to Dave Mackey's NJT Bus site, Academy already has at least one of NJ Transit's brand new RTS's (#1074, I think) in revenue sercice, so the older ex-TA and Academy RTS's may be on the home stretch.
Also according to his site, about 80 of the new buses have been delivered (there are pictures to prove it) and are in the process of being put into service.
Adios, Grummans - see youze in the next life! (Very sentimental, NOT enthusiastic!)
Correction:
That NJT RTS running for Academy was #1019.
I saw on Glenn's roster that Academy had some of them. Which routes do they run on? To the Port Authority? (I don't see them down in the Wall st area.)
Does anyone know if TCT will have any new RTS by the end of the month when I go down to Ocean Grove?
Academy uses those buses on the PABT-Hoboken line and the #22 Hillside line ONLY. The Academy services that go to Lower Manhattan are commuter routes to Monmouth and Ocean Counties.
I think most of the private NJ companies will be getting the new buses first, so TCT may very well be getting some within the next few months.
Is there a city bus I can take from Laguardia to a nearby subway station?
Triboro Coach operates the Q33. It will take you from LaGuardia Airport to 74 Street Subway station where you can connect to the EFGR and 7 trains. The M60 operated by the MTA will take you to 31 Street and Astoria Blvd where you can transfer to the N. If you need to go to Upper Manhattan, stay on the M60 to 125 St.
MCIMAN2000
MTA Q48 operates to Main Street Flushing subway.
Try to takr the TA bus. Triboro won't take your pass.
Are there any differences between an LI CNG and a QS CNG?
MCIMAN2000
Most are the same, i.e. model, engine, size, etc.
When ours first came in we asked our friends in LI about their experiences.
Mr t__:^)
Today I got on the New Flyer Articulated #5250 on Bx12 on my way home and i look at the logo, it Gun Hill Depot. I took some pictures of #5250. I look inside and some change inside. They have Dark Blue cloth-padded seat and back too, also wheelchair seat now on the right side not left. Well they run good and look like #5250 going to stay with Gun Hill for while.
Today I got on the New Flyer Articulated #5250 on Bx12 on my way home and i look at the logo, it Gun Hill Depot. I took some pictures of #5250. I look inside and some change inside. They have Dark Blue cloth-padded seat and back too, also wheelchair seat now on the right side not left. Well they run good and look like #5250 going to stay with Gun Hill for while.
How do the cable cars in SF move? One big cable pulling them under the street? They have no third rail nor overhead wire. How about the people hanging out the side? What if they fall off? Ride at your own risk?
Yes, the cable cars are pulled by one big cable. Actually, there are four such cables in the system, which traverse different sections of the system.
To make the car go, the gripman pulls a lever back, which causes a "grip" attached to the car but under the street to grab the cable which travels at nine (9) miles an hour. That center rail in the street is actually a slot in which the grip fits. To make the car stop, the cable grip is released and a brake lever is pulled, and a conductor onthe back cranks a brake there too.
Yep, it IS ride at your own risk but in recent years, for safety's sake, there is a limit to the number of passengers hanging on to the car while standing on the footboards. You fall off, you most likely will get hurt as your ass will land on a parked car, or get run over by a moving car in the adjacent lane. Not a pretty sight, though all the times I have been up there I haven't ever seen anyone fall. (I did see someone's camera strap break and the camera crashed to the pavement in a few pieces....)
I would like to know if anyone out there has the updated bus roster from NYCT since Glenn6398 never updates the roster, the last updated roster he has on his web is May 30th & there has been changes to the bus roster ever since then.
If you happen to have the updated bus roster from NYCT, please post it on bustalk.
I would greatly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Michael
Two things:
1. The bus roster is not from NYCT. It is from Glenn Rowe (Glenn6398). He and his friends mark down every change they see, and Glenn puts the information into the roster. I'll ask him to update the roster on the UTC web page; he told me he has a new one.
2. You seem to ask the same questions at around the same times every month, and every time you ask for something it is provided within a few days after you ask. For example: Steve Lowenthal provides highlights of the NYCT Committee Agenda as soon as he gets it. He can't provide that information until he receives the Agenda. That happens sometime in the middle of the month (don't look for one in August; the MTA Board traditionally doesn't meet in August). Patience!
[I would like to know if anyone out there has the updated bus roster from NYCT since Glenn6398 never updates the roster, the last updated roster he has on his web is May 30th & there has been changes to the bus roster ever since then.
If you happen to have the updated bus roster from NYCT, please post it on bustalk.
I would greatly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Michael]
This had to be stated!!! Some people are obsessive/compulsive with their constant,repetitive requests. The more they get,the more they want including such specialties as SERIAL NUMBERS!!! ENOUGH,PULEEZE!
Thank you------Steve (to Dave)
Happy 4th all! More pics have been added to both my site and Kevin's site. Check them out and sign the guestbook while you're there.
MCIMAN2000
om 7/3/1999 around 915 pm I sawe 6325, hybrid at Astor Place IRT. The bus *resembles* an orion with a low floor and the blue stripe is about twcie as wide as on the RTS and Orion bus fleets
Are you sure you don't mean 6352? 6325, if delivered yet, would be a regular Orion according to my information.
It was probably an M3. Remember, MTV has the hybrids.
I think what you saw is a standard Orion V. The series now coming in is numbered 6000-6349 (just like some T6H-5309As I know).
David
[om 7/3/1999 around 915 pm I sawe 6325, hybrid at Astor Place IRT. The bus *resembles* an orion with a low floor and the blue stripe is about twcie as wide as on the RTS and Orion bus]
6325 is an orion 5 to go to yukon and has not been delivered. he evidently did see 6352.
Now that you mention it- 6352. and yes- it WAS a hybrid bus. It was plianly labeled so on the side of the bus
Sorry...I realized what others did (that the digits 2 and 5 must have been transposed) after I posted.
David
[Now that you mention it- 6352. and yes- it WAS a hybrid bus. It was plianly labeled so on the side of the bus]
At Astor Place IRT? Was it on the Express or Local track? Kinda like an FL9 where it runs on third rail underground and switches to diesel up on the structure?
Slow news day...Sorry
It was on the through express tracks!! you know those tracks- they are below the regular express and local tracks- they connect to the First and Third Avenue Subways :-)
The next stop : 14, 42, 125 then the Bronx!
Actually it was at street level!!
sorry- you gave me a wide open opportunity and I took advantage of the chance!!
Yuk-yuk-yuk
IF anybody needs an updated roster as of 6-18-99, email me and I'll send it to you.
MCIMAN2000
I rode #5000 this morning on the #39 in Boston. This bus is a hybrid diesel-electric, low floor, and looks like it came right from NYC. Except for the exterior paint job, all the stickers and coloring inside are obviously NYC standard. I can only assume it did some test operation in NYC.
It was fun to watch Bostonians look curiously at the "Passenger Operated Safety Exit Door," then opt to exit through the front door. When I went to get off, I had to yell "rear door please," but the driver didn't know how to use the interlock. There was an MBTA instructor with him, but he was reading the paper and not really paying attention. I had to shout from the back for the driver to step on the brake so the rear doors would unlock!
I've been on a lot of buses within he city and I notice some make a noise accelerating and slowing down: Here are a few buses that I'm talking about:
Accelerating: MTA Pier buses 3609 snd 8503.
Slowing down: GL 644, QS 219, QV MTA 3952, MTA bus 3478 (i think it's scrap now but it made same noise)
MCIMAN2000
I just have to ask, what's the point of this? So they make noise! Every bus (and car, and truck, and train, and bicycle, and person walking) makes SOME kind of noise. At least tell us what kind of noise; ie, dying cattle, wounded moose, crying child, decomposing body...
-Hank
Right on,Hank! I don't get it either. Maybe it would be better to list the silent,noiseless ones---i.e. those that are parked with EVERYTHING turned off.
3609 sounds like somebody crying. I don't know what 8503 sounds like, it's hard to say.
MCIMAN2000
At one point TA RTS's were tested with an exhaust system to cut pollution. This caused a high-pitched whine on acceleration. Some still have this. Maybe this is what he means
I remember some buses from the QV depot had this device installed. It made the exhaust give off a booming sound whenever the bus accelerated from a dead stop.
Oh Yes! This is from the Trap Oxidizer system. When the 8000 series RTS's were first delivered they had dual exhaust pipes and when the would take off right before coming out of 1st gear there would be an air pump or somehting you would hear and the sound got much louder. I found that sound to be so impresive! But after a while they removed one of the exhaust pipes and the sound has also disappeared.
Peace
DaShawn
That's what it was called, the Trap Oxidizer system. I thought the sound was so great. I noticed at the time that some 8000 series QV buses sounded like that all the time, on others, the booming comes on right at the top of second gear, but it didn't last. Thanks for bringing back the memories.
My pleasure! Those were the times. That to me was one of the greatest sounds to hear. Wonder why they did away with that system.
Any suggestions?
Peace
DaShawn
Hey Coliseum "Fishbowl" 6666, are you Hanks cheerleader or something? If you dont understand a question just say so. Dont put the guy down and make fun of him. Anyway, the accelerating noise I have heard sounds like a whistle. A lot of the 8000s out of Flatbush Depot make a whistling noise when they accelerate.
The whistling noise is most likely the turbocharger.
People posting to this board have a habit of asking impossible questions, or posting trivia bits that are, to put it plainly, quite odd; such as "Today bus 1234 had a wrap. Tomorrow it doesn't." They repeated ask if anyone knows why this bus isn't here, or why a roster page maintained on another site hasn't been updated. Some of them actually start screaming about things like the roster page update. It seems no one understands that people don't put up those web pages to make money, they do it in their free time, as (or as part of) their hobby, not as a full time job. Still others think that this is some kind of official site, despite multiple disclaimers, and complain about things that no one here has any power to change.
-Hank
Correct me If I'm wrong, but that whistling noise is from the transmission. On a four speed automatic, you can hear it when the bus is in first gear. On the five speed automatic, you hear it in the first three gears. Suffolk Transit's six speed Gilligs and four speed Flxibles don't make that sound but RTS and Orion buses do.
I agree, don't insult people or their comments! Some people know how to get their point across better than others, and can be more articulate with their questions than others. And you did not like it when it happened to you in this room not to long ago and you were misuderstood! We are all human and if something is not correct we should correct a person with out malice or harm! Anyway the 8000 series does seem to have some that have this very high pitched whistling sound and you can here these buses blocks away. 8503 and 3609 are just a few of those under this sound that can be annoying if it is placed on a hawk run.
Peace
DaShawn
I am from Calgary Alberta Canada and I just finished a 20 day cross Canada trip with a Canadian Greyhound Travel Pass and I rode many of the MCI 102DL3 and 102D3 coaches with the Cat diesel engine and some of the ones with the Allison B500R5 transmission had a very annoying high pitched whistling sound when ever the retarder kicked in or whenever the driver made a full acceleration with the coach.
Also, what type of engine does the NYCTA MCI 102DLW3's have???
Our MCI 102DLW3's have Detroit Diesel Series 60 engines rated at 11.1 litres and 330 HP. They also have Allison B500R 5 speed transmissions. They don't seem to make that high pitched whitstle sound yet, I say yet because things seem to change after parts are broken in so to speak.
Peace
DaShawn
I agree with you DaShawn. People in here have to put up with my posts if they like it or not. If 8503 does something that normal buses don't do, I'm gonna post it. And it does, makes a whistling sound when it accelerates. Nobody's perfect in this world, Hank.
Everybody's gonna post information different than everybody else, so the only thing that I have to say to you is either put up with it or make up your own version of BT.
MCIMAN2000
Very well put. The interesting thing is that when 8503 came back ENY after it's 3 year upgrade, she came back making that whisling noise. Until we got 3609 and this unit started doing the samething but not as loud as 8503. What causes this sound in the first place? Is it something that was damaged during the reinstallation of the engine?
Peace
DaShawn
P.S.
Let us all resepect one another and our ideas. When we come upon a mistake or different point of view think about how you want to be treated or responded to and then put your response down. BT is precious resource and we do not want to loose it by doing dumb things.
Peace again!
DaShawn
The simple point is, if you're going to make a statement such as you did, at least describe the noise!
-Hank
Point well taken and fully understood.
Peace
DaShawn
Your point is well taken Hank, but even I was curious about what causes that whisling noise. It may be a trivial subject to you, but to others, it's a major topic.
I don't care if it's a mjor topic. My first point was that the original poster said they "make a noise". No specifics on what it sounds like, no theories on what itr might be, not even a question. Just 'These buses make noise' and a bunch of numbers. Who can make sense of that without the addtional information?
-Hank
I agree with you, Hank. When I saw that original post, I thought of writing the same kind of reply that you did. Of course, I did laugh about the descriptions you suggested.....
That was intentional. I didn't want to seem like I was going off on a rant with no purpose, nor did I want to appear insulting, since some people here could poison my next Shea Stadium hot dog...
-Hank
8149, 8416, 8436, 8524 and 8560 makes accelerating noises too.
Yes, there is a bus (or more than one, I don't remember the numbers) at Hudson Pier that "whistles" as it accelerates and decellerates. Shifters call it, "The Whistler." I think it sounds like it came from the Twilight Zone. Other drivers liken the sound to a jet engine. In any case, it's one of our better buses.
Does anybody have a Brooklyn Bus Map from 1985. Please post on BusTalk
I might--Send me an e-mail to remind me, along with how I can get in touch with you. I once thought it was my mission to collect every variation of every map, so your chances are good.
Regards,
Charles Fiori
Today i just add 16 more bus pictures into my page. Go check out my Bus's Page and enjoy it!!!
Peace Out
Meaney
On the subweay side, we've been having a hot discussion on A/c. When did NYCT install A/C on their buses- either as added to current buses or bought with "factory air conditioning". I recall that the old light green Fifth Avenue Coach Line Buses had A/C over the rear window and they were removed when MaBSTOA entered the scene. Why were they removed.
How much capacity in tons or BTU do the current buses have and how much did the old rear window overhang models have?
What about the over the road bus fleets such as thew new express buses or the greyhound fleet
The NYCTA started buying A/C equipped buses in 1966/67 with an order of 682 GM TDH-5303 (8001-8202 NYCTA, 8301-8780 MABSTOA). All NYCTA buses after this group were ordered with A/C. The NYCTA did not retrofit the older buses. Well.... The NYCTA did retrofit the Blitz rebuilds with roof mounted A/C units.
As for FIFTH AVE. COACH,I only recall #3100(G.M.C.-part of the current museum fleet) and one other test bus from the same period (perhaps a WHITE) that had A.C. I know of none that had their A.C.removed when MABSTOA was formed. I concur with Wayne that the G.M.C. 8000's were the first group equipped with A.C.
I believe Fifth Avenue Coach had a few 5301 fishbowls that had air conditioning. I remember most of their first fishbowls (5301's) did not have A/C; I think they were originally numbered in the 3100's. But I also recollect a few that did have A/C, perhaps as a test or experiment.
Yes. Fifth Avenue did have ten (10) GM TDH5301's with air conditioning, they came from GM numbered 1-10. After the MABSTOA takeover and renumbering, these became 3211-3220 and would be seen a lot on the Bx41 on Webster Avenue.
I remember these 5301's, as I grew up in a neighborhood served by Kingsbridges' BX-20 route. I was very young and soon those buses disappeared. As I got older I though that they may have been one of the TA's tests. I always liked the looks of the A/C equipped fishbowls so I took a special interested in this small group. Of course at that age I didn't know it was only ten of them, but I did know that I didn't see them too often.
I have a question for anyone who may know and have ridden these A/C TDH-5301's. As many of you may know... The TA's TDH-5303's had grey seats in the front and foward facing red seats in the rear and the T6H-5305A's had all grey seats. However MABSTOA TDH-5303's had green/red or all green seats (MABSTOA did not receive any T6H-5305A's). During the early 70's we lived in a second floor apt. and one day I was looking out the window when one of the A/C equipped TDH-5301's passed. I could be wrong, but I think I remember seeing the TA grey seats as the bus passed. Does anyone know if some (or all) of these buses having grey seats??? My guess would be that they had all forward facing (except over wheel wells) cushioned seats and the NYCTA chose to replace them with the plastic seats.
Wayne
My recollection is that all of the ex-Fifth Ave/Surface Transit 5301's (with or without A/C) had the original cushioned and forward facing green and white seats replaced with MABSTOA 1963 style hard plastic seating (green longitudinal in the front half, red transverse in the rear half) around 1965. Most ran out of Kingsbridge Depot on the BX 1, 2, 19, 20, 37, and 38 routes - a few of the A/C 3200s could be found on the M104.
Saw this bus at Newark Airport yesterday. What is this bus used for over there?
Are you referring to TA 1981 RTS #1671? If so, I think that bus has been sold to Academy Tours.
Yep that's the one. RTS#1671. It was on the runway at Newark Airport.
Please be advised that the bus transfer issued by SIRT (Coded 97) is direction sensitive. That is, if it reads N/E, you may use it only on Staten Island Routes; if it reads S/W, you may use it on Manhattan (but not Brooklyn) Routes. Can someone please verify all this? Thanks a lot. Gerry Josephs.
The transfer issued by the SIR is NOT valid in Manhattan. You may only use it on buses in Staten Island. A bus transfer in either direction will work on the SIR, but the S/W (St. George-bound) transfer is valid only on buses with a destination other than St. George. A bus transfer will work on the SIR only if issued by a Staten Island bus.
-Hank
Here is another interesting difference in the SI bus/subway fare system !
I would have assumed that a Transfer issued north bound would be good on a bus in Manhattan, but then isn't it collected as you board the SIRT subway ? I think the answer is no, i.e. FROM the SI bus you swipe the Transfer as you enter SIRT. Since it's swiped you may still physically have it, but it's dead, i.e. on a bus it would be retained, because it's good for only one free Transfer.
I seem to remember someone saying that the only bus farebox on SIRT is at St. George. Where you obtain one to get a free transfer to the buses in SI.
You probally could get a Southbound Transfer there as you board the Ferry ... would it work on a southbound bus in Brooklyn/Queens/Manhattan ... maybe not if it has a special code.
BTW, still looking for one of my SI friends to send me a used Transfer.
Mr t__:^)
Has anyone seen, or does anyone know what happened to bus #3640, which used to be assigned to the Jamaica depot?
hey Chris GMC-RTS #3640 is at Carlton Ave Storage Yard in Brooklyn.
Thanks David. Glad to she she didn't end up being sold to another transit agency.
Hello fellow bus freinds!!
I am a true "busnut" who lives in Calgary Alberta Canada and just found this site through a freind of mine Zack Wilhoite from Puyallup Washington. I thought I would interest you in a website that My freind Ken Baker and myself set up at http://welcome.to/tmx we have lots of photos of trolley buses from Edmonton Alberta, and Vancouver British Columbia. Also have lots of diesel bus photos from: Vancouver, Victoria and other BC Transit cities, Calgary (the Calgary page is temporarely down), Edmonton, Red Deer, & Lethbridge Alberta.
Check us out at http://welcome.to/tmx as we will soon have New York and New Jersey photos up in the coming months. Seattle will be up in about 2 months time. Feel free to e-mail me at any time at orion_pete@yahoo.com or nova_lfs@yahoo.com always interested in meeting more Transit and Intercity enthusiests!! I can be found on AOL's AIM instant messaging as screen name flyer1879 !
Look forward to hearing from you. Also looking for websites that have older New York Transit and other New York area bus photos and information,
Cheers,
Peter McLaughlin
Hello again!
I watched the movie "The Seige" the other night and saw GMC RTS #5287 get blown up :-( is the actual bus that got blown up?? or did they just put that number on the bus for the movie??
Cheers,
Peter McLaughlin
Those bus are actual put number on the bus for the movies and used to be GMC-RTS #1648 (1981). That bus got blown up for real. Also RTS #4199 are the real number. There are two buses in that movie.
I don't understand why they didn't just keep the actual number.
The bus was retired anyway, so why change it.
Also, was the number 5287 chosen at random, or was there a meaning to it?
Ie remember in the movie that the FBI agents would refer to that bus as "Bus 87" I can't remember if the route was considered route 87 or whatever.....!!!! they never refered to the bus as 5287, it was just displayed as 5287!
Cheers,
Peter McLaughlin
Except for biopics and comedies, the TA forbids using actual numbers of revenue vehicles (i.e. buses and subways) in disaster scenes of movies and/or tv shows. While no particular reason is given, my guess would be that they feel customers would be uncomfortable riding "Pelham 123" or bus "5287."
Then how come in Die Hard 3: With A Vengeance, and Money Train, all the R-27/30 cars depicted in those two movies DID have authentic numbers?
This is just a guess, though I've seen (and enjoyed) both movies: they were made without the support or cooperation of the NYCTA. I do know for a fact that scenes in Money Train were filmed by constructing a half mile of subway track (and tunnel and station) to simulate the NYC subway.
I think they were all retired from passenger service by then.
Ah yes I remember 4199 it had the Blue paint bomb blow up inside it!!
I can understand 3000 on Q53, but now they're on the Q18?! I saw 3041 today on the Q18. To Triboro: THIS IS NOT a good idea! The buses will get more messed up this way. The 3000s are in good shape now, why ruin them? I know that the 640-740 series are on their way out, but they need to be run till the new LOCAL CNG Orions arrive.
I've noticed something about the RTS 640-740 series and other diesel buses that run: When the weather is like what it was today, they smoke more. Wonder why?
MCIMAN2000
Saw 995 again today on Q32 run 118. Took a pic of it and will be developed tomorrow.
MCIMAN2000
Yes, ever since I returned to the Q32, Runs 116 and 118 have been hot to drive Miss 995. However, I am somewhat pissed off at Run 118 because he may have damaged the wheelchair mechanism, putting Miss 995 out of action on Thursday. Not to worry, a Novabus rep fixed her and she was back on the streets Friday morning. I didn't get her then, either. And yes, I miss her.
Please post that pic of the 995 operating on the Q32 on your site!!!
Thanks.
Will do soon.
MCIMAN2000
Does anybody know if those 4 new CNG'S are in at Green Lines? If they are, what are the numbers?
MCIMAN2000
Northbound on the NJ Tpke yesterday, headed towards the GW Bridge, was Green Lines Orion (?)5536. Anyone have an idea why?
5516 was there not too long ago either. Probably going there for repairs and upgrades. I've noticed a lot of the cpu's on the 5500s
not working. Before 5536 went to NJ, I believe that the cpu was out.
Within the last week, I've saw 5501, 5505, 5506, 5512, 5519, 5522, 5524, 5531, 5537, 5538, 5541, and 5543 where the cpu's were not working.
Why do the orions have this problem?
MCIMAN2000
Yes, but from where was it coming and to where was it going?
Detroit Diesel/Allison has (or had) a maintainence facitlity in Newark, which I think has moved. Any warranty or recall work on the drive train is done there. TA buses make the same trip, but usually travel back to the city by way of Staten Island.
-Hank
If it was at the GW Bridge, it was probably coming from Lodi at Atlantic Diesel aka Penske Power.
Peace
DaShawn
There is a place in New Jersey on US routes 1 & 9 about 1-2 miles north of the Holland Tunnel/Pulaski Skyway where I've seen lot's of different buses. It's hard to get a good look because the traffic moves pretty quickly along this road, but last Thursday I saw a Green Bus Lines Orion there. Unfortunately, I could not get the fleet number. Also the previous week I passed by and saw a WMATA Orion there. It could've been one of their 1998 Orions or one of their 1992 Orions that has the new WMATA paint scheme.
I've also noticed many of the New Flyer D40LF's that operate at EWR there.
Wayne
I believe that you are referring to the Red & Tan Tours facility (a/k/a Hudson Bus and Trans Hudson Express) at 437 Tonnelle Avenue in Jersey City. Red & Tan (now a Coach USA Company) has some of the bus contracts at Newark Airport. I've also seen a Green Bus Lines Orion there; I believe they do some repair work at the facility. (There have also been many former Transport of Rockland RTS's in their lot for many months now.)
Does anyone know if there is any bus service between SI and New Jersey? If so, who provides it? From where to where? And why isn't it noted on the SI bus map?
There is service provided by one of the many octopus arms of Coach USA, I believe in this case it is Trans-Hudson Express. There are 3 routes, the 55, Port Richmond-Bayonne; and the 122 and 144, Jersey City-Staten Island express. They aren't shown on the SI bus maps because they are not a TA or NYCDOT franchised service. But then, the many express busses from Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that ARE NYCDOT franchises aren't on the maps either.
The DOT has an express bus map that shows the various routes provided by companies such as DOT franchise companies and NJ companies like Red and Tan, Academy, etc. I have a 1993/94 copy. Maybe by calling the DOT here in NY a new version is available.
Peace
DaShawn
There is no later edition,,,sadly
The NJ Items have been changed ,I know,,I have been doing lot of work ,with this area
Steve
The 55 No longer runs,,,,,material that was learned in my studies of NJ Transporation
122 and 144 are still running ,though
Coach USA ---Trans Hudson runs the 10---33 ===99s 99 ,,122 144
Steve
What material do you need
Thanks for asking. I was just curious. It seemed to me that, since SI is only part of NY because NJ's boat was slower and since there is bus and ferry service to SI from Brooklyn and Manhattan, there must be some sort of mass transit between SI and NJ. Also, I was planning a trip to Bayonne to look at the LRV and thought that a ride on the SI ferry might be a pleasant alternative to taking PATH to Jersey City.
BTW: I also forgot to mention that all of the QS Orions (700-705)
have broken cpu's.
MCIMAN2000
Broken Signs, or something else? CPU is short Central Processing Unit. That's different enough from the sign (equivilent to the monitor on your computer) being screwed up.
There's a CPU in the farebox, the sign control computer (but not the signs themselves) and the engine control computer.
-Hank
What I meant to say is that the QS Orions have broken destination signs. Sorry about the confusion.
MCIMAN2000
Most of the Orions that Green Bus has;has the exact same problem(except 5503)
If 5503 doesn't have any problems, then why don't the whole 5500 fleet be converted to what 5503 is? Same goes for 700-705 QS.
BTW: For any 5503 hunters: I saw it on Q60 today. Could see it from a mile away.
MCIMAN2000
I agree 100% the destination signs on the other 49 Orions that were purchased from D.C should have the same destination sign as 5503 and you can see it from a further distance
Besides 5503's dest. sign being orange, what are the differences between it and the otther DC reject Orions?
My maint source told me that the last 50 diesel Orions that WMATA let NYC-DOT purchase have a unique mfg for the Destination signs, Voltron I believe. It's the same firm that supplies TBTA. They are hard to program compaired to Luminator version & have had quality control problems. You may be interested to know that Orion has deleted them from consideration for future orders.
So be somewhat comfortated to know that the problem is being worked on
Mr t__:^)
I was looking through the internet at NYCTA buses when I saw a picture of an MCI bus. It looks like a charter bus.
What is this equipment used for? I would think that the single door up front would be hard for loading/unloading passengers. Are the seats plastic like a transit bus, or padded like a charter bus?
When did the MCIs come into service?
Thanks for your help,
Brandon Bostian
Those are the MCI 103DL3's used for Staten Island-Manhattan express services. The first ones were delivered around last year or so and more are expected by the end of this year.
I haven't ridden one yet, but my mother who lives on SI takes the X1 occaisonally and tells me that the buses ride like a dream.
Yeah well I guess anything would after the cramped express RTS' and even the regular transit versions (do they still do that? I remember a few years ago, the TA would sometimes put regular transit buses on the express routes).
When the first MCI's were just delivered, my mother wasn't aware of them and she passed them up a couple of times while waiting for the X1 because she thought they were Atlantic City buses!
I guess it quickly occured to her that AC buses don't normally run every 15-20 minutes ;-)
I remember back in the early 90's the TA did have a MCI model 102 that ran an express route to Staten Island. The livery was white with a small MTA logo on both sides and the rear. It would load passengers at 57th/3rd Aveue, then continue west on 57th Street and turn south on 5th Avenue. It had padded seats and I believe it was equipped with a restroom. It was the only one I saw, I haven't seen it since.
This is the first order placed by the NYCTA for intercity coaches, but the NYCTA did lease MC-8's from Greyhound in the mid 1980's. Even though this is a first for NYCTA many transit agencies have used intercity buses on express/suburban commuter routes. Also, many tour/charter operators use their coaches in regular line service.
I remember at one time NYCTA local buses could regularly be spotted on express routes, especially SI expresss routes. I haven't seen many lately, but before the MCI's came I used to see many 1990 TMC RTS (8300's) on SI express routes.
Also before Casey Stengel became an all Orion depot they would occasionally send a local Orion on the X-51 route.
Wayne
The current pattern for service out here involves the TA checking the buses. Some routes will get the older RTS and Orion coaches if it is discovered that there are less than 40 persons riding the bus at that time. They also are using any bus with functional A/C on x-bus routes, if a coach setup is not available.
1861, the first MCI bus delivered, was originally equipped with a swing door, but was later retrofitted with the split-pair door.
As the MCIs are used only in X-bus service, a center door is uneccesary, since people only get on the bus in one area, and only off the bus in the other.
-Hank
All of the posts have been quite interesting. In Memphis, we have no express routes and thus no express busses. :-)
Why was the split-pair door better than the swing door?
Thanks again,
Brandon
City traffic. A swing door needs approximately 3/4 of its width to open. A split door needs about 8".
-Hank
The split-pair door doesn't take as much room on the sidewalk as a regular swing door and is also faster than the swing door. Of course any one can add to this!!!!!
Cheers,
Peter McLaughlin
I can't imagine how slow the swing door is, considering how slow the split pair is.
-Hank
So i may not be in new york but down here in puerto rico the split door buses mci flxible have a faster door opening then many NovaBuses
The bad thing is, is the back doors. When they open depending on how the stop
is, they cannot close. I know my friends hatethat problem cause i always gott
to yank them shut
the other buses however are crazier
if you get a 1992 bus here,
you gotta push the back doors open cause they dont
MCI Flxible ??????
Yeah, MCI bought the Flxible design. But is it true the PR has them, and that they are using 2 part doors instead of 4 part accordion types?
Chicago also uses the 2 part instead of the 4 part also.
Peace
Dashawn
Where can I find pictures of Viking buses?
Are these buses going to be purchased by the TA?
If so when is the first delivery date?
Today i took the J train to Eastern Pkway. Before enter Eastern Pkway the train slow pass East New York Depot and i saw three buses parked are RTS #4403, 8814, and 9006. Those buses have bad paint with no logo and dirty. Look like they been there for long time. RTS # 4403 & #8814 came from Kingsbridge Depot and #9006 came from Manhattanville Depot.
Peace Out
Meaney
It sounds like the buses mentioned were being prepared for repainting. Buses are sanded, and their logos (etc.) are removed, before going into the paint shop.
David
[Today i took the J train to Eastern Pkway. Before enter Eastern Pkway the train slow pass East New York Depot and i saw three buses parked are RTS #4403, 8814, and 9006. Those buses have bad paint with no logo and dirty. Look like they been there for long time. RTS # 4403 & #8814 came from Kingsbridge Depot and #9006 came from Manhattanville Depot
On Sunday, 8806,9152,and4431 were there with 9006.
To Trevor,
I would like to know if you are going to add NYCT bus electronic desination reading signs for all bus routes in all five boroughs, if so, please post on bustalk.
Thanks,
Jeremy
THANK YOU
STEVE
EXAMPLE,,FOR JEREMY ,,SARAND,MICHAEL
I'm still researching all the readings right now I have only the readings for Bronx and Manhattan Routes, when I receive all, It'll be posted on my site probably by 1st week of August!!!!!
Trevor
Kindly use email for personal discussions.
-Hank
Any body know where the hell is Gershow Scrap Yard??? I just want to go there to take many pictures of RTS & Blitz buses. Just post this bustalk. Thank You
Peace Out
Meaney
Also i forget something else, where is Nimco Scrap Yard?
Nimco is in Newark,I believe.
Gershow Recycling is located at 71 Peconic Avenue, Medford (LI) NY Tel: 516-289-6188. It's out at Exit 63 or 64 on the LIE. I think Peconic Ave parrallels the LIE a few blocks to the south. They had a bad fire there about a year ago because some sunlight was reflected from a mirror onto something that ignited.
Phone book also shows a Gershow in Lindenhurst 516-587-1991 but I don't think they keep buses there.
By the way what is the location of Ullmer Park Bus depot in Brooklyn ????
Ulmer Park Depot is located at 25th and Harway Avenue in Bath Beach.By subway take B train to 25th Ave and you can walk 3 blocks to depot or take the B-3 bus. In additon the B-6,B-28X,B-64 and B-82 bus routes stop near the garage.
Thanx for the Ullmer Park Depot info. According to a brochure given out at Bus Fest '99 the depot is home to a GM Model 5303 with bus # 3758. Was this the bus used in "A Bronx Tale" with Robert De Niro? I had taped the movie several years back but someone in my household taped over it.
none of the buses used in that movie are transit buses. however this bus was used in the movie flamingo kid which you can rent at your local video store.
They don't send buses there anymore.When they did,they went to the one in Medford.I was there recently and didn't notice any buses.
Nimco Bus is in a fairly desolate area. Can't remember if it is Noork or Jersey City. Thinking Newark.Kind of Northeast of Noork Airport.
I remember back in 87 heading down there and dealing with a Jim Robinson. I got some great destination signs as well as an entire housing from a Queens Transit bus through him. Also some WMATA "special event" boxes.
I was riding on the Q-53 with one of the new CNG Orions. When it got to 63rd Drive, about 15 people wanted to get on. Since every seat was already taken, the driver only let on 8 people saying that this is a weight restricted bus. I went up to him and asked why. He said because of the fuel tanks above and that all buses of this type are all like this.
This cannot be true. Long Island Bus and countless other operators who use CNG Orions never had this problem. Either there is a hidden problem or there is something wrong here.
This is a problem with the Orion V's even in Long Island. These buses are really not my favorite for the simple fact that the tanks add so much weight to frame that weight restrictions have been placed on them. Some models of buses use lighter tanks made of some type of composite fibre that make the bus lighter on a whole and there for can carry more people. This is also why when CNG buses were being produced in quantity Flxible had designed a safe and efficent way to put the tanks under the floor instead of on the roof. The other thing is that the range is not the same as a diesel, but when used under floor the Flxible had an equal range to diesel. The RTS also has been designed to have underfloor mounting of CNG tanks. Numerous opinons and arguments have been had here on BT on why Roof mounted tanks are better than underfloor mounted. Personally I don't care for CNG at all. LNG is a better option than CNG and for NYC I really feel that Hybrid Electrics will win the game as the answer for cleaner buses.
Peace
DaShawn
LNG is more dangerous than CNG. LNG can explode on expansion (LNG is CNG that has been compressed and cooled to liquid form) There are a few monuments on Staten Island attesting to why LNG is a bad Idea.
NYCT places no restrictions on the capacity of its CNG Orions.
-Hank
I just returned from Phoenix, Arizona, where an amazingly high percentage of the Valley Metro fleet is now low floor and LNG. If LNG is so dangerous, how can the Phoenix fleet justify using it, given the temperatures this time of the year (the coolest day we had in our 5 days there still got up to around 106 degrees!).
I totally agree with you Sid. Not only in Pheonix, but also in Dallas, TX they are using LNG and also not to mention Houston as well and they have been using it for years and no one has said or reported how dangerous LNG or any related catastrophies due to LNG transit buses. They said the same thing about Methanol as well. This all comes to the that sydrome called NIMBY if you ask me and lack of correct information. My question is LNG has to be stored at about -212 degrees Farenheit and the buses have special chriogenic tanks to keep the LNG at this temperature for at least 7 days, how would it be more dangerous than a CNG bus?
Peace
DaShawn
Has anyone tested CNG or LNG buses for safety in collisions? Do the tanks rupture? Burn? Explode?
While NYCT has no restrictions on their CNG Orion V's, they were taken out of service to have their tanks replaced due to faulty ones installed during the maufacturing process. The RTS CNG's did not have this problem.
PEace
DaShawn
Last I heard DaShawn was right, i.e. LI Bus & DOT "privates" have standee limits and it is directly related to CNG tanks on top. I find it hard to believe that NYCT isn't subscribing to this safety restriction on it's Orion V. RTS CNGs with tanks on top is another matter (NYCT & privates have had them too).
BTW, orig. DOT said "no standees", but then we discovered that LI Bus allowed 11, that input was then factored in to the final decision.
P.S. Later in this thread is a comment about the CNG tanks on the NYCT fleet ... we had a similar problem here, all tanks were fixed.
Mr t__:^)
But most of the time LI bus goes over that standee limit. Is it dangerous?
Well it hasn't happen when my daughter tryed to catch the N15 at Mineola ... several coaches passed her & a few other customers because the CNG was at capacity & no one was getting off at her stop.
I believe the standee rule is a NYS-DOT thing, although I may be wrong as to who's rule it is.
Unsafe ? It's a weight/center of gravity/stopping distance thing. If LI Bus has a problem on the road & someone gets hurt they'll regret that the dispatchers weren't policeing it better.
The problem is that customers don't WANT to understand, they just want to get on the dam bus & get where they're going.
Disclaimer: This is not a official statement, just a personal comment by someone who happens to work in the industry.
Mr t__:^)
Since The CNG orions that the TA does not have this problem, then the solution should be either retrofit the frames of the bus and strengthen it, or never order the CNG Orions again and use CNG RTS's which do not encounter this problem.
Are the CNG RTS's a better bus overall than the CNG Orions?
I know I like diesel RTS buses much better than the Orions, I guess the same might hold true for the CNG's?
I've found RTS buses to be a hell of a lot more stable than Orions, making them much more comfortable to ride.
I wish LI Bus would use some of their RTS buses, I think they should use them instead of those horrible Gilligs.
The first group of RTS made by TMC had all kinds of problems. Some of the last RTS by GMC aren't holding up too well. At this depot we're spending serious money on MCIs because we see them out lasting most of the former.
Orions ... they're have some typical new bus problems, both diesel & CNG, but the dirvers I've talked to seem to like them.
Mr t__:^)
Up here in Canada there are not any known problams with the CNG Orion "V" buses, I cannot understand why there would be a problam with only the NYCTA CNG Orion V's :-p
I totaly agree, we even have problems with the diesel orions. The new 6000 series have problems with their wheelchair lifts staying put. Due to all the shock and other elements that take place here in the city they are malfunctioning. The other thing is that most of the Orions have been going to 207th Street for their 3 year upgrade were work is being done to their frames because they are starting to bend and show stress, therefore they are fixing them to stay in service. Sounds like this is the Grumman Flxible 870 of the 90's.
Peace
DaShawn
Most of the Command, QS, and Triboro RTS buses that were stored in Command's old facility have been moved across the street to a vacant lot (across from the sanatation garage). M1 and M4 (former Triboro Buses) still remain. Does anyone know where the others (Triboro Methanol) were sent? Command buses 351-356 have the Command logo removed from them possibly heading to Varsity.
Command buses 351 to 356 are owned by Command and not NYCDOT. Possible they could be headed to Green Bus or Varsity?
thanks but I want to know where the Triboro Methanol buses were sent. Command buses 351-356 do not have wheel chair lifts so i assume they will not be used by another DOT operator.
M3 has been converted to diesel and is operating at Jamaica Buses as bus number 3701. M5 and M6 are in the process of converting over and will go to Green Bus. Fleet numbers have yet to be assigned.
Ralph, please let me know what numbers these buses will be cause I'll post them on my roster (Bet they'll be #653 and 654). Got a question though: I heard that some Command buses will be going to Green Lines. Is that true?
1 other question about Green Lines: Was there a bus 600 at 1 time?
I thought about a few years back I saw it on Q41 in Howard Beach?
MCIMAN2000
What effect did this have on the buses (depots use electricity to fuel?) Do the bus operators- NYCT, MaBSTOA, Privates have any diesel or battery operated pumps top fuel buses in case of a big blackout. Can fareboxes be emptied if there is no electric power
Kinsbridge was the only depot affected. Most of the equipment was fueled and vacummed at Mother Clara Hale where I work. Extra shifters were put on to handle the load. Minor inspections were also done at Mother hale. Manhattanville operators reported to me that articulateds were fueled and Vacummed at Manhattaville but I did see a articulated at Mother Hale in the early afternoon before it gets crowded at The Hale with the morning buses pulling in and resting for the night. Also a operator friend of mine at KB said it was very hot in KB and that maintainers were performing thier work under very hot lights.
Forbid, it happens but do any bus service providers have backup fueling ?-diesel operated pumps- what if they city went out like 1965 or 1977.
Yesterday I saw this odd box being passed around in our L&F/MC Sales/Customer Info area ... inside was Tickle Me Elmo and the staff was playing jokes on each other. Apparently a customer left him behind :-(
The good news is that the customer called & Elmo will make it to the birthday party on time :-)
Mr t
More pics have arrived at TransiTALK at
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
with much much more NYC Bus and DOT pics coming next monday!!!!
Enjoy
Trevor
How do the CNG's fare in extreme hot weather like earlier this week?
I was riding LI Bus Orion CNG's on Tuesday, when it was 100 degrees, they were straining but I did not see any breakdowns.
It seems the newer series (270s, 280s) shake prior to stopping and buzz with the A/C on. What causes that problem, I don't know, but it downright annoying.
How has NYCT's mainly diesel fleet fared in the extreme heat last week. I'm curious to know how CNG buses handle hot weather compared to diesels.
Again though, anybody notice engine shaking prior to stops on LI Bus CNG's, especially the newer 270 and 280 series buses?
I noticed last week that the diesel buses smoked a lot more in the sweltering heat. I'm not sure about the CNG's.
MCIMAN2000
You must also remember that most of the RTS fleet now has 200,000 to 500,000 miles on them.
I've noticed the Orion CNGs making a funny kind of noise when they stop. With only 4 cylinders a little shaking would be normal, i.e. that's why a V-8 run smoother then a streight 4.
Mr t__:^)
Why don't they use the V-8 engines instead?
The noise they make (mostly the newer 270s and 280s) is a buzzer around the drivers console. It sounds like a warning buzzer. Does that mean the engine is having trouble and might shut down?
All I know is that would be damn annoying if I were driving the bus.
The buzzer around the driver console could mean anything: transmission temperature, engine temperature, low air pressure, emergency engine shutdown or engine start/resart. I was a Suffolk Transit 9600 series Gillig and the buzzer kept sounding because the driver was overheating the engine and he had to keep stopping to race the engine to cool it down. That was the only way the buzzer would shut off.
It makes that buzzing sound just prior to stopping, and the engine shakes rough. It is mostly on LI bus newer CNG Orions, over #270.
It's annoying though, and I wonder what it means. Is there something wrong with the engine, or is it just a minor defect?
I mean if the engine partially loses power, which is what it feels like, LI Bus should take a good look at those 270s and 280s and fix the problem.
Also alot of the time the buzzer sounds prior to opening the door, I've seen that on NYCT orions from Casey Stengal as well.
My favorite Orion CNG's are the oldest "wide" ones that LI bus has, they are numbered 654-666, some of them have soft seats.
Engines sound different and run smoother, and I wonder why all the others don't run like them. Also like the nice BIG destination sign on them, they look very similar to the Orion CNG's that QS are running now.
The buzzing sound you might be hearing befor the door open might be the speed switch alrem. The driver is hitting the door control before the bus is below 2 miles per hour. It is ment to keep the door close if the control is hit by acendent while the bus is moving. This is is the same as the rear door on all the buses in the fleet.
Because they don't need the power of the V8, and the fuel consumption of the V8 is close to twice that of a 4-inline.
-Hank
Long Island Bus CNG Orions make all sorts of funny noises when they either stop of pull away from the curb. I'm not complaining, I just think that its weird. Oh well.
That funny noise that I'm talking about is only when the bus is decelerating and about to stop. It's a kind of put put put noise. My maint source says it's a NORMAL backfiring related noise that the Orions CNGs make.
Mr t__:^)
Sure that aint more of a "wob wob" sound?
I know that sound is just part of the way CNG Orions decelerate.
I guess the engine shaking and warning buzzer prior to stop on the new ones is "normal" too?
orion buses broke down quite a lot on tuesday. nyct has now instucted us to operate them with brake retarders off in extreme heat as this was contributing to the breakdowns.
CNG is slightly less efficient at high temperatures. Diesels problems are mostly related to cold. It all depends on the efficiency of the cooling system. And since the engines in the CNG and the diesels are nearly identical save for the fuel supply...
-Hank
I saw QS Buses 356 and 360 last night at the Subway Series with the Met Yankee shrink-wrap. 4796 Police bus was there too. And Command ran bus 4948 to Shea. For Command, I truly thought they would run their bus with the subway series shrink-wrap (one of the MCIs). I'm going again today, if there's anything new or unusual there, I'll post it here on BT.
MCIMAN2000
This is a question for bus drivers and experienced bus riders. Which bus would you prefer to drive or ride, an RTS, or an Orion?
How do the CNG RTS's compare to the CNG Orions?
I've got an interesting question, if there was a bus race which type of bus would you use?
I would rather drive the Orions. I have found that a DD engine and a six speed automatic is the best powertrain combo for these buses. CNG RTS buses are good, but the CNG Orions are the best. You haven't lived until you hear the exhaust of a CNG Orion at full bark. In a race, I don't think either make of bus has an advantage, but I would prefer the Orion. I have ridden so many MTA RTS buses that I am sick of them. Orions are a welcome addition to any city or suburban bus fleet.
I would have to agree with you that you do get sick of riding RTS's beacuse here at NYCT they are the dominant breed, but I would have to give a big thumbs up to the 1999 RTS's #5075-5124. These buses fly! With the Detroit Diesel Series 50/ZF HP590 combo they are a winning team and to me they are the fastest accelerating RTS's to date followed by the 1999 and late 1998 RTS's with the Series 50 DDEC IV electronic controls. The Orions are ok, I love the 6000 series by far. The New Flyer Galaxy D60 Artics are by far the most impressive! 60 feet long, 41 foot turning radius, 5 speed Allison automatic coupled to a Series 50 DDEC IV = A beautiful combo!
Peace
DaShawn
If anyone saw the video Doo Wop (That thing) by Lauryn Hill, in the background, there are two GMC buses parked facing each other. One appears to be a Blitz rebuild and the other is a RTS, both in MTA livery.
The video is based on two era's. The 60-70's and the 80-90's. If you look at the whole video you would notice the split screen distinguishing the two eras.........
Speaking of which I just saw Lauryn Hill new video, "Everything is Everything" There is a scene where she is by Central Park and bus passes by. I believe the bus had a WestSide Depot decal on it. Do anybody know what bus it is?
Okay, I'll admit it, I've been a closet "bus nut" since I was a kid and cried and forced my mom to go to the "Open House" at the depot at West 5 Street and Neptune Avenue for the debut of the GM New Look bus. I couldn't go because I had a fever and was terribly disappointed when Mom returned and reported simply that the new bus seemed "very nice" and gave me a package of Twinkies that the TA gave her.
Years later, while riding a B44 home, I asked the bus driver if one brand of bus was better than another. (This was in the early 70s when, like now, several companies and models were in use.) He replied, "A bus is a bus. They're all the same." Inside, I was crestfallen. I liked the GM New Lookers. I loved the Macks that took me to grade school just a few years previously. I hated the Flxibles. Hell, I wasn't even sure of how to pronounce the name!
Still more years passed. After chasing after Hino buses and double deckers down Fifth Avenue, I eventually got behind the wheel myself on June 7, 1982. And I made a discovery that was both heartening and disappointing. That B44 driver was terribly wrong!
Although my first depot was Amsterdam, I was trained on a 2000 series RTS (2344, I think) from 132 Street Depot. In my group of seven students, I was so good (and no, I wasn't that good!), I didn't get to drive much. More disappointment! Just as well, though, for Amsterdam had no RTS buses at the time and I broke in on mostly Flxible 7300s (which broke down frequently) and a handful of ancient GM New Look buses. I hated those Flexies! Even when all the air conditioners were refurbished (and the windows screwed shut!), most of them were a trial to drive. Many were slow or hard to steer or lost way too much air pressure while braking. Many days, I would be standing in front of the depot gazing with envy as an M11 bus from Hudson Depot, usually a 2600 RTS, flew by. I yearned to transfer from Amsterdam to Hudson. And wondered why the M104 line, which I considered the major line of Manhattan (we had 107 runs and 8 extra rush hour buses) wasn't given the creme de la creme of buses. Then we got the Grummans.
Oh happy day! They were fast! They were comfortable! They had terrible a/c for the driver! They bounced out of potholes like they wanted to jump over the Chrysler Building! They struck cars and trucks to the left and right if they turned too sharply. And they broke down almost as frequently as the old 7000s! In short, these were great buses- as long as they didn't move. And then it was decided to scrap them all. But I didn't know this. At the time, the best of our Grummans were being sent to the 54 Street Depot. I still couldn't transfer to Hudson, which still had those turbocharged 2600s, so I followed the Grummans to 54 Street. On my first day there, I discovered that all of the Grummans had been removed to a dock in Brooklyn (where the TA eventually sold them for as little as $5000 apiece)! Their replacements were 9000 series Flxibles! And a handful of ancient 4000 series Flxibles! As an added bonus, there was an extremely bad bus shortage. (Although we did have alot of bad buses!) Although the 9000s (and even the 4000s) handled better and felt more powerful than the old Amsterdam 7000s, I was still unhappy. Then we got buses from Washington, D.C. to help with the shortage. They were old GM New Look buses from the 1960s that DC Transit was going to scrap. I got to drive one once. It was wonderful! The a/c worked fine. They were fast. They were comfortable. Drivers would fight each other to pull them out. And I still got to stand in front of the depot and gaze in envy as the M11 bus flew down Ninth Avenue. After several years of driving 9000s, I finally got to go to Hudson. But, just before my first day, all the 2600s were sent out to all the depots in the city! Now it was Hudson's turn to drive all the dreck of New York City's bus fleet. And what was I to do? Go back to 54 Street or Amsterdam? No. I just couldn't. I bided my time driving 2200, 2300, and 2400 series RTS buses, now, in less than five years, well past their prime. I waited patiently as 132 Street depot closed and newer 3000 and 4000 series series buses were fueled and/or stored at Hudson. But Hudson drivers couldn't use them because of "revenue conflicts," i.e., we could only drive buses with Hudson fareboxes. The 132 St. drivers even got paid more because of the added time it took to bring their buses to Hudson instead of the now defunct 132 Street Depot. But I still waited. Years passed an we got some 8200 RTSs. And some Blitz buses. And then the Blitzes went, thanks to the Americans With Disabilities Act. And then half of the 8200s went, replaced by more old RTSs.
Now we have about a 50/50 ratio of good and bad buses. And Miss 995. So it goes. I'll bet if I transfer to Manhattanville, they'll send all their hybrids to Hudson.
Alan, maybe your luck is changing! Miss 995 seems to be staying at Hudson a pretty long time. I would have thought she'd have been transferred to another depot by now. And today's buses at Hudson aren't bad: some 9600's and lots of high 9400/low 9500's, plus those 8400/8500's (especially 8413). Best of all, maybe 1700 will stay there awhile.
YES!Another fan of 1982 RTS buses.
I saw 734 yesterday on Q18 with a black bumper just like my 2137 pic that's on my site. Speaking of my site: More pics and a surprise have been added. Sign the guestbook while you're there telling Kevin and I what you think.
MCIMAN2000
Here is the picture that i took New Flyer Articlated #5250 (Bx12) last week at Pelham Parkway. Note: Look at the top of the bus and see the zero.
there's a 3 on top of it, no zero
Hey PaddedPerson#6000, It not 3 on the top because i saw Zero in my own eye very clear while taking photo of #5250, i was on the Train Station taking picture.
Hey Busfan, I just add three pictures of New Flyer Articlated #5250 on my page. Check out my page www.angelfire.com/ny2/nyctmtabus/index.html or go to Busfact page by Trevor Logan.
Peace Out
David"Meaney"Justiniano
I looked at the pictures and it seems to me that you may be right. Need to look at it closely........................
I blew it up as much as I could, but I honestly can't tell WHAT number it is from that angle.
-Hank
Hey Busfan, I want to know if there is 3 or 0 on top of New Flyer Articlated #5250. Someone said it 3 and i said 0 because i saw Zero in my own eye very clear. Just post this and let me know it is 3 or Zero. Go check the picture and tell me.
David "Meaney" Justiniano
It's not that clear but it also looked like a 3 to me. I saved the picture under bitmap then zoomed on it and even rotated the picture. Still resembled a 3 more than a zero. Maybe if you can take another picture centered better a clearer shot may come out.
The only way you'll be able to tell is if you take a shot of it from directly above. From the angle of the photo, it is impossible to tell.
-Hank
It seems like a zero, but from that angle it is hard to tell due to the roof hatch. But that number must be from when it was delivered as 1110 which it did do service for like 3 days or so until they changed the number to 5250.
Peace
DaShawn
Well, it's back to work on the the Q32 Monday morning and even after a vacation week that rates a "1" on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm not looking forward to being back in the saddle again.
Miss 995 is being shoved out the door every morning, assigned to drivers that have never driven her before after a quickie lesson on on operating this divine "low rider." So, what are the odds I get her when I report at 8:30? Slim to none.
At least my reliefs like to pull out newer buses, 8400s and 5000s. They don't like the 9000s because of the s-l-o-w wheelchair lifts and I tend to be sympathetic to this opinion. Also, working the Q32 requires a bus with power (read "speed") because the Stengel guys have two time points: Northern Boulevard and Penn Station. To be fair, many Hudson operators have adopted this idea too. The running time between 47 Street and Penn Station Manhattan bound is woefully little. After returning to the 32 the week before last, I noticed many buses running two, three, even four at a time. To the customer, this means average waiting times of around a half hour and eventual service cutbacks since that third or fourth bus is empty. The reason this problem is on the increase is simple. Runs have been adjusted so that most trips are swing trips or go-home trips and the drivers rush because, with the lack of supervision, they can pretty much go as fast as they can.
As for me, I like to try to run on schedule. And I like a bus with strong air conditioning.
Oh well. Maybe the new arrivals to Hudson to replace our 8200s will fit the bill. And I can always dream of Miss 995.
[After returning to the Q32 the week before last, I noticed many buses
running two, three, even four at a time. To the customer, this means average waiting times of around a half hour and eventual service cutbacks since that third or fourth bus is empty.]
There also must be a substantial group of customers that expect to meet the Q32 at a particular time when transfereing from other lines (TA & "private"), e.g. Q104 at Queens Blvd. & Roosevelt.
How do they feel about the bus bunching ?
BTW, just curious, no other reason for asking.
Mr t__:^)
Nobody likes bus bunching except the guy driving the last bus in the bunch.
More NYC Bus, NYCDOT, and even NJT Pictures have been added to TransiTALK
check them out
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
Tonight on the m42, RTS 9639 was very crowded. Someone leaned into the rear step well and the bus powered down and an automated announcement said "Please, don't stand in the stepwell."
There was sometype of sensor on the ceiling above the stepwell. I've never seen or heard this before.
--Peter
On the orions its "Please, do not stand in the rear doorwell."
Its a female voice.
As for the thing over the doorwell, well I think is a sensor for the door when its open. Anyone know about this?
The warning is activated when someone applies pressure to the locked rear doors. If the bus is moving, the rear brakes may be activated, stopping the bus firmly and rather quickly.
The 'Bitching Betty' voice came on the 1993 Orion order, and is on every bus since. Of course, they don't remain in working order for very long. As I recal, just stepping into the stairway by the rear door resulted in a very curt female voice calling out: "Please! Do not not stand in the rear stairwell while the bus is in motion."
-Hank
The overhead sensors are to ensure that the wheelchair lift has a certain amount of clearance for the safety of the disabled customers. If the sensors prevent the lift from deploying it can be overridden by a override switch on the control panel.
The Sensors is so the lift can not the stored when there is a person on the platform not tot prevent it from deploying. The sensor is pointed down at the step not out side the bus.
It also prevents it from deploying also, the reason I know this is because when you try to deploy the lift and there is an obstruction like a parked car or anything in the way of the sensor which is sonar based the lift will not deploy, you must have a clear path. I have been on many a bus with operators who try to make the lift deploy and it will not because of an obstruction.
Peace
DaShawn
The "Please do not stand in the rear doorwell" message occurs regularly on the LI bus Orion CNG's.
It usually happens when somebody can't get the rear door open upon exit, or, the sensor is defective. I was once on a bus with standing room with nobody near the rear door, but the buzzer and announcement were going non stop for almost the whole ride!
Amazingly, the driver did not seem to notice!
There are new buses in Columbia, SC. Can anybody tell me who manufactured these buses?
This morning I saw NYCT RTS 7531 on a flatbed truck exiting Sunrise Highway in Bohemia. The engine cover was open, so I guess she was going in for major engine work. She was probably going to that facility on Veterans Highway in Holbrook.
Atlantic Diesel that is.
Why don't the new buses (like the ones on the M1, M100, M104, Bx6 and Bx15) and the other new ones with the felt seats have automated announcements announcing the route, destanation, and stops. They have them in DC and Philly. In DC when the front door opens a female voice like the one on the Metrorail says "Welcome abord Metrobus Route 30. Destanation: Archives." At a certain point before each stop a chime sounds and the same voice says "Rodman Street." There is a screen above the standee line on both systems that in DC says the name of the street or metrorail station name and in Philly also says the route, destanation, date, and time (this all scrolls across). Why don't the NY buses have this technology? They really need it because I sometimes think the stop is at X Street and it is really at Y. Also it helps tourists find their way.
As mentioned in BusTalk a month or two back, the CNG Orions of LI Bus have this type of system. I agree that it would be nice to have it more widespead, especially on TA routes.
Personally, I love the idea, but NYC has thousands of bus stops that should be announced, so the concept of an automated system is huge. Bottom line? Bus drivers should make more announcements using an effective, hands free public address system.
Which they have, but rarely used. The systems were meant less for passenger convienience, and more as a requirement of the ADA. The TA tested the talking bus concept a few years ago, and as I understand it, people were incredibly annoyed.
-Hank
It isn't that hard. On the buses in DC, the word street is the same every time. Also, if the M1 stops at 79th, they can use the same recording for the M101.
If you live in New York City try to ride this week Run #19 on the M42. This women driver maid every bus stop announcements. Each one way a story in it salf. She gave each bus that was at the stop and what points of intrest on that route. She even gave the history no the Javic Center. Lets just say she was like a very good tour guide for just $1.50 Fare.
P.S. She is on Vocation Relief so next week she won't be there.
Same went for a guy at QV. He gave a tour on Q46 especially about SJU. Now I'm not sure where he is.
MCIMAN2000
Does this happen with the Flxibles in NY?
If there is a standing load on the bus, the brakes fail to release sometimes and the driver must get the people to move further back in the bus. I've been told that there is some kind of weight sensor on the front end of the bus and if there is to much weight on the front end, the brakes will not release. This is a somewhat regular occurance around where I live and Traffic always tells the driver to get the people further back in the bus to get the brakes to release.
I've heard of this happening with the rear doors before but never with to many people up front. I haven't heard of this happening in other cities either so I was curious as to why it happens here in Pgh.
RDChilds
If you're asking about Flxible Metro - NYCTA has never had any of them. The last Flxibles purchased by NYCTA were the 851 Grumman Flxible 870's - most of which ended up in New Jersey. The NYCDOT privates also operated the 870's (Jamaica Buses still has a few). MSBA (Now LI Bus) used to have many 870's and Flxible Metro's. Westchester County Bee-Line has many 1990 Flxible Metro's.
Wayne
We would have had 50 1996 Flxible metros #1900-1949 but since they went out of business, we have 50 Orion V's in the 600 series instead. If anyone from NJ like Sid could answer that question since he lives there, he may have that knowledge. As for the Flxibles, they were supposed to be Metro-D's similar to the ones in DC. They were supposed to be equipped with Detroit Diesel Series 50's and The Carrier or Sutrak Roof mounted HVAC unit. The reason for the Roof Mounting of the HVAC unit is beacuse Flxible used the former HVAC area above the engine compartment for exhaust afertreatment devices. Our units would have used the Catalytic Converter system attached to a roof mounted exhaust pipe system very similar to NJ Transit's units.
Peace
DaShawn
I ridden many of those WMATA Metro D's (9700 & 9800 series) and they are a blast. On their newest Flxible Metro's (4000 & 4100 series) WMATA went with the DD Series 50 and A/C in the rear. These of course are my favorites as they're easier on the eyes. I noticed that WMATA has painted at least one GMC RTS and M.A.N. articulated in their new paint scheme. I didn't think this would happen as they're pretty old buses, but then again if WMATA can still operate new look GM's and Flxibles - then maybe we can expect to see the M.A.N's and RTS for several more years.
Wayne
It happens when there is a standing load in the front sometimes, particularly on the 6000 Orions I have noticed and the 9000 RTSs.
I've ever only experienced it with the Flxibles Metros but I did hear on the scanner today that there was an Orion V that it happened to also. It probably is a safety feature of some sort to keep people out of the front end I would guess.
What year are those Flxibles that you guys have down there that are now painted gold? They seem to look like Flxible Metro-D's.
Thanks & Peace
DaShawn
Around 94-96 but may be 93-95 (can't fully recall). The Flxible Metros were trickling in over two years so they ended up spanning a 3 model year period. Overall they are a pretty nice bus but a little underpowered.
The gold paint scheme PAT uses is the worst thing they ever came up with for painting buses especially with the gold graphic decals they use in addition to the paint. It looks like someone took a can of silly string and aimed it at the side of the bus. They want to paint the entire fleet like that but if the past holds true, they'll get about half the fleet painted up before they change the paint design again so they can have five or six different paint jobs on the road at the same time.
RDChilds
Well... I don't think anyone will come up with a paint scheme that's worst than what NYCT does with it's RTS these days.
Wayne
Wouldn't you agree that the paint scheme (or lack thereof) that Green Bus Lines had on most of its Orions when they first got them was worse than the NYCity Bus RTS scheme?
You mean when they were in their plain white wrapper??? They did look rather plain or naked, but I still think it wasn't as bad as what NYCT does. Let me make it clear that I think NYCT buses are OK, until NYCT paints the black areas white. RE: Green Line Orions - I also think the green/white scheme looks better than the green/white/black scheme. What do you all think?
Wayne
Do bus operators are assigned to buses are they choose the bus they want? For instance Im at ENY. Can I choose bus #4987 or will the depot assign me to #3997?
Depot or dispatcher don't give you a assign for bus like RTS #8000 and you can pick any buses you want. Just like my father, he work at West Side Depot and he pick any buses he want. My father like to drive RTS 7500s buses.
It all depends on what kind of run you have. If you have a relief run on the road you dont have much choice because you get what comes to you. If you are a pull out you may have more of a choice depending on what time you pull out.
Your farther also has some time on the job so the yard dispature let hit pick a bus. When I go to to the yard at Ulmer Park I get what they give me so I do not get that many 9000's. I know one driver alway get bus # 9344 up untill he just retired last mount. So it is mostly on how good you are in with the yard dispature.
It depends on who you are. If youre an old timer, you pick one. I remember years ago that runs 1 and 2 on the Q44VP in front of my house always got 1706 and 2583 everyday.
If youre a new guy, you get the junk. If you're a pull in on the first half, you might get a bus on the EPI sheet (early-pull-in) for maintenance. Occasioanlly an EPI slips by and has to be pulled in unscheduled. I ad an 8400 once that was EPI and they brought a 3000!! out to me.
A yard dispactor Assigns bus to the pullout dirver dpending on how long the bus is due to be out on the road. The longer the better the bus.
That's why I see my baby 4212 on the late P.M a lot.
Hey everybody: I got some great news: I got 3 pics of 4212 on B52. 2 front/passenger side pics and 1 rear pic. They'll be posted on my site soon. Once they're on, I'll let all at BT know.
MCIMAN2000
Since geocities was down last night, I wasn't able to update the rosters. Tonight I will. I see that QS has received more new buses:
528, 530, 533, and 566. Haven't seen 521, 526, 531, 564 and 565 yet.
Saw bus 355 with US Open shrink-wrap. Also, saw bus 915 today on the QM4 with the script decals on the sides. The back top still has the old scheme but the bottom back has the new 2 strip orange scheme. Couldn't get a pic of it though.
Bus 204: Saw it on Main Street with a no passenger sign on it. My friend said that it broke down, again and the back door doesn't work. He said that 204 ALWAYS brakes down. That bus HAS to go. 193-194, 196, 199-200, 202-203 were much better buses than 204.
Finally: I was on bus 272 on the Q66 this afternoon and I had to close the back door for the driver about 3-4 times. Anybody knows why this occurs? That's the latest for now.
MCIMAN2000
Saw buses 9424, 9438 and 9600 that were once with aluminum wheels now have steel wheels. I figure a lot more of this will come soon.
MCIMAN2000
9600 was delivered with Steel wheels instead of Aluminum, I saw this bus on the B39 shortly after delivery. This gave me the impression that the TA was going to order future models with steel. The intersting thing is that Flatbush seem to be changing alot of their 1998 RTS's to Steel from Aluminum.
Peace
Dashawn
9147 is another one.
The TA has stopped ordering aluminum wheels due to problems realized during their current use. Aluminum expands more than steel, and in stop-and-go city driving, they heat up quite quickly. This caused the wheels to expand, loosening the bead on the tires, which caused them to lose air. The loss of air led to handling problems, and thus, no mor aluminum wheels.
-Hank
Strange, because the MTA in Baltimore converted the entire fleet, including work equipment to Alcoa Aluminum wheels. We have had no heat problems (and MTA runs city buses just like everybody else - New York has no lock on stop-and-go city driving.) The Aluminum wheels save weight, thus less fuel usage.
Exactly! and not to mention recyclable!
Peace
DaShawn
Steel is just as recyleable as aluminum.
-Hank
True! But aluminum is much lighter than steel therefore making any unit that uses this material for wheels lighter. I can't understand how everyone else who uses aluminum has no problems that the TA claims to have, and alot of transit systems are converting their fleets to aluminum.
Peace
DaShawn
Each operator has their own problems with certain things. If the TA set certain criteria for the wheels to pass, and they didn't, then that's that. If B-MTA had different criteria, they passed.
-Hank
Just to tag on to this thread here, some buses that were not delivered with aluminum wheels, are now running with them, such as Orion 134.
-Hank
not to mention 123 and 135 both of which came back from 207 st with aluminum wheels
Give a call to the Technical Svcs people at NYCT (718) 927-7733. They have experienced some severe failures.
Yesterday, I posted a message saying that I saw NYCT RTS 7531 on a flatbed truck going for repairs at a unnamed facilty in Holbrook. This morning, during my travels around Suffolk, I took a good look at the building and surprise, it's Atlantic Diesel. It figures, because there's no other place, other than H.O. Penn in Holtsville that would service buses equipped with DD engines and Allison transmissions.
Does anybody have a Brooklyn Bus Map from 1974 (revised 1976)? Please post on BusTalk.
Some of the last few posts were about sensors for wheelchair lifts on the Orions. Deshawn said that they were sonar based. How do they work?
Like a sonar on a nuclear sub?
Exactly like that. Sonar works by bouncing sound waves off an object, and (the speed of sound through air being approximately 725mph) timing interval between the 'send' and the 'recieve'. It's also called echolocation when bats (the flying kind) and other animals use it.
-Hank
Wednesday, the fine folks at Novabus decided to take Miss 995 home to Schenectady to give her a checkup. I'll miss her terribly, but I have been assured that she will return. Also, I've been informed by the AGM at Hudson that several more Nova LFS buses are coming to NYC with a redesigned seating plan, touch tapes instead of bell cords and other minor modifications.
Did you hear anything about changing the way the rear door works? I'm still not totally convinced that the way 995's works (you wave your hands near the rear door to get it to open) is the best setup in New York City. Bus riders are so used to have to press the tape to open the door, and they're usually not the best sign readers in the world!
The rear doors on 995 will remain as they are. If you remember, it took years for the public to get used to touch tapes instead of pull cords. So shall it be with the new back doors. Although, on the Orion Low Floor Hybrid, the back doors are similar to the current setup. Personally, I think yellow touch tape is a simpler system than a sensor.
I am looking for an update of buses currently wrapped for the following companies: Liberty Lines Express, Command, Triboro and Green.
QS is in the process of wrapping 20 buses for the US Open.
-Andrew
US Open wraps at QS:
341, 354-355, 374, 381
I assume more will come.
MCIMAN2000
Other buses that are wrapped at QS:
195, 197-198, 201, 255, 326, 330, 341, 347-348, 350-351, 354-356, 360, 363, 374-375, 377, 380-381, 384-BACK ONLY, 385-387
Triboro: 783 and 790
Green: None
Command: 436, 443 and 470
Liberty: Unknown
MCIMAN2000
Here are some wrapped buses i know: (all MCI Classics)
Liberty- 3056 - Apple Computers
Liberty- 3049 - Noahs Ark
Liberty- 3082 - American Airlines
Command- 478 - Apple Computers
Command- 436 and 443 - Met/Yankee
Command- 470 - Botanical Gardens
Command also has a Clariten Wrapped Bus.
This morning I confirmed my earlier suspiscion of ex-NYCT RTS in Newark, NJ. They are located east of the NJ Turnpike, just south of exit 15E. There are several of them parked normally, and even more stacked at least 3-high, on their sides. This was my view from the x31 this morning
-Hank
while driving on the si expwy yesterday i saw a towtruck with an rts bus. the numbers and all markings for nyct had been removed. the towing company was called unbelievably rts from hillside nj. this is probably the place you saw as i believe hillside is near newark.
Proposed Service Revision
X1 and X10 Service Modification
Implementation ===Sept 1999'
Sunday Service X1 and X10 ,On hourly Service Intervals
first trip leaving SI at 8 AM
last trip departing NY at 7 PM
Alternatives Discussed include 1/2 hr Intervals,,,would increase annual operating costs by 100 per cent
or
X17 Sunday Service ,,,Saturday service still has to be evaluated on this route
___________________________________________________
Proposed Service Revision
X14 Route Modification
Implementation Octobert 1999
X14 Morning Route Path Manhattan Bound via Water St and the FDR and 23 St
Downtown X14 service --"X13"NEW,via Tunnel Trinity Place,Greenwich St terminating at Worth St.In the Afternoon ,X13 from Worth St on Broadway
Aftrnoon X14 via E23 ,FDR,Franfort St,Water St,etc
Alternative Discussed ---Midtown X14 via NJT and the Lincoln Tunnel ----Slower and avoid the Downtown Areas
____________________________________________________
NYC Transit Bus Schedule Changes,,Fall 1999 affecting 84 Routes ,7 Days a week
Steve
In your July 1999 NYCT Agenda, you indicated that changes would accur on 84 bus routes for the Fall 1999, 7 days a week. If you can, can you post on bustalk the 84 routes that are being affected in Fall 1999.
Thank you,
Timothy
Call me 914 668 9218
during the week if you need this info ,,,very large listing
Steve (after 9 PM ,M-F)
Steve, Are there any new limited stop services. What are the modifications om the X1 and X10.
X1 and X10 to run sunday service
X14 to be split into x13 Downtown and X14 Midtown,that was it,,for this momth
Two questions here:
1. Bx12: What is the service pattern during the summer? Does the limited busses go to beach or do they end at Bay Plaza? On the map the service says CONTINUOUS. Does that mean that the service to the beach is the same as going to Bay Plaza?
2. Bx15,21,32,41: How come the Bx15 do not continue down 3Av around the hub area? It runs down Willis then turn on 138St then back bown on 3 again. It would seem that the Bx21,32,and 41 should run down Willis and vice versa?
I'm not sure what the Bx12 is doing these days. I assumed that Limited buses also went to the beach. Continuous??? - Maybe beach buses are also servering Bay Plaza.
Re:Bx15,21,32 & 41. It's always been that way. Keep in mind that only the southbound Bx15 run along 138th street to 3rd ave because the 3rd ave bridge carries traffic from The Bronx to Manhattan only and Willis Ave bridge from Manhattan to The Bronx. So, if the Bx15 were to be rerouted to stay on 3 ave, then the northbound buses (after crossing the Willis Ave bridge) would have to make their way over to 3rd ave or continue along Willis Ave as it does now.
Wayne
Most of the Westbound Buses Turnaround at Sedgwick Avenue
I beleive,,for most part,,the Limited Buses proceed to Manhattan ,,only
My maint. source asks if one of his depot colleagues has been doing extensive testing of Orion V brake linings, i.e. composition of lining vs. wear/longevity ?
Naturally Orion is doing this, but he is aware of at least one other operator who is independently doing the same.
Please feel free to reply off-line by clicking on my name. He also would be happy to talk to you directly if that's your pleasure.
BTW, for the rest of you BusTalkers this question has some relationship to the "Standee" restriction on the Orion CNGs, but also is an area of concern on their diesel coaches.
Mr t of Queens Surface Corp.
Does anyone know which NJ Transit Bus goes to Burma Road near Liberty State Park. Also will need bus from Newport Center/Exchange Place PATH Station to same .
Thank You
305 From Exchange Place to Liberty Science
Lafeyette and Greenville
Central Av Bus from Journal Square,,also
The #305 isn't publically known as such, in fact, it doesn't display a public number -- it is simply called the Liberty State Park & Ride Shuttle, something along those lines.
Can anyone assist me (Mr Vartan ,take Note please)
Thanks
Steve
Sorry, FDNY, I am not quite sure of the routing in the city.
HOWEVER -
I spoke with a driver on the #22 bus back in December and discussed the route with him. He mentioned the route of the 55, but I can't really remember exactly what he said.
Now Lakeland Bus Lines' midtown service (which operates along the Route 24/78 corridor) operates a route in Manhattan which I think is either identical or very similar to the 55:
INBOUND: Down 8th Avenue to 34th Street, then across to Madison Av, then up to 57th.
OUTBOUND: 5th Avenue to 34th Street, then across to 10th Avenue and back up toward the Lincoln Tunnel.
REMEMBER that this is Lakeland's routing and may or may not be the same as the Carefree #55.
Hope this is helpful!
I received the 55 routing from DeCamp,,except for the Manhattan portions
The 22 and 55 are ex-Decamp
Steve (THank you )
I've never seen a Green Bus 221. I've seen from 222 and up. Was 221 renumbered? Until I see 221, I will not put it on my roster. I have as of 222.
MCIMAN2000
According to production records Ihave from GMC, 221 was delivered as fleet number 10001.
The 10,000th RTS built went to Long Beach Transit in California (their 4477). I guess Green Lines wanted to give themselves some recognition and had what was supposed to be bus 221 numbered as 10001, as it was supposed to be the 10001st RTS built.
Only problem is, the production records show the following:
FV823075 Long Beach Transit 4477
FV823076 GM COACH SALES/to County of Strathcona (Alberta)
FV823077 -
FV823124 Green Bus Lines (NY) 221-268
There's that "demo" bus in between the 10000th and 10001st RTS's, that's the problem. (Of course, Long Beach got the very first RTS's built by GM. When they heard GM was selling off the T&C Division, they wanted to play historical and get the LAST ones, too. Only problem was, Kansas City (MO) and Montebello (CA) managed to get in their orders AFTER Long Beach did, thinking they were gonna get the last GMC RTS's!)
What happend was this;when GBL intoduced the RTS's in the mid 80's,GBL was still running it's new look Flexibles from the late 60's-early 70's(those where numbered from 200-221)I remember this because 200 to 210 had the emergency exit across from the rear exit door and 211 to 221 did not.
I'm not sure about this, by I thought Green had an RTS that was numbered 10001 for awhile but eventually this bus was renumbered to 222. Not 100% sure - going on some vague memory!
221 was renumbered as 10001. My roster starts from 222. 10001 is a seperate bus.
MCIMAN2000
Green Lines did have a bus numbered 10001. I used to ride it all the time on the Q10 route in Richmond Hill. Glad to know she's still around.
As of this past Wednesday here are the Triboro buses that are currently stored across the street from Command's old Facility. 643,648,665,686,692,719,738,M2137,M2139,M2143 and M2145. Also M1 and M4 are still stored there too.
Today i add more pictures in Busfest and new design in my page. www.angelfire.com/ny2/nyctmtabus/index.html or go to Trevor Logan webpage "Busfacts Page". PS more bus pictures and Depots coming soon.
Peace Out
Meaney
995 returned to Hudson Pier Depot today, but I didn't take her out as I did not have enough time to make a trip to Queens. Nova checked our her wear and tear, painted her a bit (where the paint had chipped off at the front side corners) and adjusted a couple of minor bits and pieces.
Also, on the roof of 995, the number 999 (or 666) is clearly seen from a second floor vantage point.
I know that there are a few Bus Operators that monitor these pages.
If you see Shuttle Routings Posted in the Depot Crew Rooms,etc,,Please send me the EXACT details
Thank you,much
Steve
If you need routings for any Routes in either
county,Please let me know,,,,,
I just acquired Putnam and updated PTLA,and added a
new 75 Rye Playland to the Railroads at Port Chester
and Rye.
I also eliminated the PTLA 31====no longer running
and added the PTLA 33 New Route between Croton Falls
RR and Mahopac Dagastino's Park -n--Ride
Note
Putnam is operated by P.A.R.T.
Stands for Putnam Area Rapid Transportation
PTLA operated in the Peekskill and Jefferson Valley
Area Route 6 Corridor
Port Chester-Rye Bus Co operates the number 75 and
the number 76
If you need Routings for LI Buses or Long Beach Transportation
Let me know
Steve
In case you don't have the routing for Lakeland's Route 24 corridor service, I have now charted it.
NJ Turnpike and I-78 to Vaux Hall Rd. in Millburn. This leads to Millburn Av. and it operates along Millburn to Morris Av and makes a right. Goes to Broad Street and makes a left. Operates along Broad Street until it meets Morris Avenue again, then makes a right. Operates along Morris Avenue to River Road and makes a right. It operates along River Road until Rt. 124 and makes a left.
It follows Rt. 124 (also known as Main Street) through Chatham, Madison, and Convent Station. Then it joins Rt. 202 (aka Speedwell Avenue) in Morristown and terminates at Headquarters Plaza.
I'm almost positive that this is the routing.
I also have the routings for the MCM 1 and 3 if you need them.
Do you have all of the Lakeland Routes
I have the MCM1,2,3,10,,,I am missing 3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Thank you
Steve
Last night, I saw #5000 test running on the Huntington Ave #39.
Too bad I did not have my camera nor did I hop on to that bus, as #0221 (forget the number) beat Mr. #5000 to the Copley stop.
I do recall that #5000 was also running on an inbound #39 to Back Bay earlier this week.
I asked the driver of that #39 I was on, and he said that there are 4 such in test routing.
The route numbers which are doing the test running are as follows:
Southside #9, #11, #23, #39, #66 (and possibly #1?)
Northside #70, #77, #92, #455 (Maybe #93 also, #92 is not a really high volume route)
Only 31 seats, which is the only negative, but I have no full indepth coverage on it. Perhaps someone who rides any of the routes above can give more. Any Bostonians out there?
I'm in Boston this weekend (had tickets to yesterday's Red Sox game) and was looking for the Orions on the 39. My daughter had spotted "a strange bus" a week or so back on the 39, and I remembered reading that at least one low-floor Orion was going to be tested in Boston. I had no luck spotting one yesterday, and won't have time to look today. Maybe next trip back. (Also, there didn't seem to be any low-floor 3800's on the D-Riverside line yesterday. I suspect they are used only during the week. Did see 3804 in Riverside yard.)
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had heard that New Jersey Transit reused to test them on some routes because of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had
heard that New Jersey Transit refused to test them on some routes because
of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be
ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older
buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway
trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for
our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful
and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had
heard that New Jersey Transit refused to test them on some routes because
of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be
ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older
buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway
trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for
our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful
and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had heard that New Jersey Transit reused to test them on some routes because of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had
heard that New Jersey Transit refused to test them on some routes because
of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be
ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older
buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway
trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for
our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful
and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
Does anyone have any info regarding the weight of these Orions? I had
heard that New Jersey Transit refused to test them on some routes because
of their weight.
Any other info, good or bad, would be helpful as the MBTA seems to be
ready to push these vehicles as possible replacements for our older
buses, as a permanent replacement for the outer end of the Arborway
trolley line(now being operated as the #39 bus), and quite possibly, for
our remaining trolley buses.
The only thing we get from the MBTA is that these vehicles are wonderful
and we would feel more comfortable with other opinions.
Thanks!
I've added more pics to my site, HOWEVER, if you check them out on AOL, they may seem to be a bit staticy on the bottom of the pics especially pages 3 and 4 of the MTA page. The 4th page is a new page that was added yesterday and these were the pics that were fuzzy on AOL only. 1 or 2 are on page 3. Anybody knows why this is occurung?
Please let me know. Thank you.
MCIMAN2000
Need I say more than just "AOL"?
The problem is that AOL uses a stripped down version of MSIE and they changed the graphics renderer within the built in browser to save space. The only way around this is to use an external browser and not the internal one they supply.
BTW, nice pics on your site.
RDChilds
Where are they? I havent seen 1 so far. Werent they supposed to be delivered a couple of weeks ago?
The low-floor Orions (6350-6353) have been at Manhattanville for quite some time. 6354 was delivered later, and 6355-6359 are still to come.
I think he is talking in reference to the New Flyer C40LF CNGs, there were supposed to be about 55 of them on the road but something happened and the delivery was delayed, I will find out today what happend and post it tomorrow! The other Orion Hybrid Low Floors will arrive by October-November this year!!!!!
Stay Tuned
Trevor
Word has come, 3 New Flyer C40LF buses are in service, 10 are due this Wednesday with 10 being delivered every week until all 190 are here!!!
Source: Joel Brill, Department of Buses Procurement
Trevor
aka MTA Boy
thank you. I did mean the New flyers. my brain was turned off at the time i posted the message. the front of an orion kinda looks like the new flyers anyway
You are right! It's a Canada thing!
Peace
DaShawn
Does anyone know what model DD engine JB 605 uses and also what is the model designation for the transmission? Thanks.
I used to ride Red and Tan buses to upstate New York. Are the engines in the MCI MC-9's air cooled or water cooled? I've never seen the radiator on these buses.
The radiators are above the engines. See that slope on the back? It covers the radiators. It has a belt driven by a engine pulley.
Look on the dash of the MC-9s. There is a warning light "LOW WATER".
The always had water cooled engines. The only vehicles I know of that don't have water cooled engines are the early 70's WV bugs.
A diesel would be way too hot to be air cooled.
You're right, Greg. An air cooled DD may not be the way to go. Thanks for the info.
An additional 50 MCI coaches are in the offing for Staten Island. This would make the original 120, plus the option for 60 exercised before the buses were delivered, a renegotiation for an additional 50 already exercised, and now an additional 50, for a total of 280. Full story from the Staten Island Advance, posted with assumed permission, as the site allows the page to be redistributed. The article also mentions the beggining of Sunday service on the X1 and X10, and notes the 85% increase in express bus ridership since 1996. The new buses are not expected to replace all the older buses currently in service.
© 1999
Staten Island Live.
All rights reserved.
Express bus buildup gets another boost
Transit president asking MTA to fund an additional 50 vehicles for Island routes
By JODI LEE REIFER
ADVANCE STAFF WRITER
Less than three months after the state approved 50 new express buses for Staten Island, plans for doubling that purchase are rolling.
New York City Transit voted to support the purchase of 50 additional express buses yesterday, according to Transit spokesman Al O'Leary.
This means a total of 280 new Motor Coach Industries Inc. buses will soon be serving Island commuters. The figure includes the 50 new buses already scheduled to arrive between Nov. 3 and Dec. 10.
The buses will be added to existing routes, O'Leary said, not used to create new ones. Exactly which routes will be expanded has not yet been determined, he said.
"The express bus service is still growing on Staten Island," said O'Leary. "In fact, since 1996, express bus ridership has grown by 85 percent."
The purchase, which was proposed by Transit President Lawrence Reuter, will now go to the full Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) board of directors for a vote at a full board meeting on July 28. O'Leary said the proposal should move ahead without problems.
The funding for the buses will come from the existing MTA five-year capital budget, not from the agency's $379 million surplus, he said.
The first group of 50 new vehicles cost $18.6 million.
The original contract with Winnepeg-based Motor Coach Industries, written in June 1997, was worth $45.2 million for 120 buses for Staten Island. In December 1997, the contract was supplemented for an additional 60 buses at $23 million.
O'Leary said he did not believe latest crop of newer 57-seat buses would replace the older 39-seat buses currently serving some routes.
The increased service comes in response to demand, he said.
"Staten Islanders are voting with their MetroCards," said O'Leary, adding the increase is part of Gov. George Pataki's mandate to maintain good levels of service for express bus users.
News of the additional 50 buses came as no surprise to Larry Hanley, president of Local 726 of the Amalgamated Transit Union.
"They know our buses are full of standees," he said. "This purchase gives them flexibility to add substantial amounts of service."
"My hope is that [Transit] can produce the entire 100 at one time. The sooner we get them the sooner we can get better service out there for the riding public," he said.
Although 100 new buses may sound remarkable, the increase still leaves Staten Islanders slighted when compared to residents of the other boroughs, argued Hanley.
"Ninety-nine percent of the capital budgets are spent on other boroughs," he said. "Even if they bought 1,000 buses they would not approach equity in how that money was spent."
The push for increased express bus service stemmed from a coalition of groups and individuals, according to Hanley. The Staten Island Chamber of Commerce, Staten Island Board of Realtors and religious leaders were among those spearheading the movement, he said.
"Really, what people are saying is 'The quality of our transit relates to the quality of our lives,' " said Hanley.
When asked if the move was politically motivated, Hanley replied, "I think there's political recognition on the part of the governor that an important constituency on Staten Island has been notoriously underserved."
The latest addition to the Island fleet sounded good to one express bus rider.
Christal Putkowski of Great Kills has been commuting to Manhattan for 20 years. She said the X12 route, which starts in Mariners Harbor and runs through Westerleigh before reaching downtown and west midtown Manhattan, is particularly crowded. She also said extra buses are needed during the evening X4 route, which originates in lower Manhattan and goes from South Beach to Eltingville.
"It's very heartbreaking to see people coming home from work and having to stand," said Ms. Putkowski. "Especially if there's a delay along the way. They could be standing for up to three hours."
Transit also approved a proposal to initiate Sunday service on the X1 and X10 routes. As previously reported, the changes would probably go into effect in October. Scheduling details are not yet available.
The X1 originates in Eltingville and proceeds through Great Kills, Oakwood, New Dorp, Grant City, Dongan Hills and Grasmere and terminates in midtown.
The X10 route begins in Port Richmond and travels through Bulls Head and Willowbrook before terminating in midtown.
So even with the MCI fleet up to 280 buses, the ratty RTSs will still be on the road? Were all the Orion coaches sent to Queens? New routes are desperately needed on the south shore, it looks like the MTA is missing an opportunity to create new express routes. (I'm also tired of the south shore commuters driving into New Dorp and taking up parking spaces on my block.)
For the most recent fleet updates (6/19)
check out
http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650/NYCTransit.html
and click on MTA-New York City Bus Roster!!!
Trevor
Trevor, July is the 7th Month, not the 6th.
MCIMAN2000
OPPPSSSSSS!!!!!!
Trevor
Today saw a RTS with the electronic sign reading "Coastal Storm / Emergency Route" Did I not hear the weather correctly today?
--Peter
i saw that same message on an mci on the gowanus last week. ill try to find out what code it is.
Does anyone out there,,have an updated listing
Route Number Readings Code Number (if availa)
Thank you
Steve
I believe it is 9202.
4152 is not in storage, I was on it yesterday on the Q32.
1700 was on run 115 on the Q32 today. Was on that also.
MCIMAN2000
4152 has been returned to Hudson from 126th Street along with 4159, they still carry the 126th Street depot stickers on the left rear side above the rear triangular window.
Peace
DaShawn
Is 1700 in regular service?
What other depots have early 80's RTS in regular service?
126ST has 2611 still running. Brooklyn division has lots of 1983s still running.(3000s)
1700 is in regular service at Hudson Pier. Other depots that still have early 80's RTS in regular service:
QV (some 1700s, 1800s, 3800s and 3900s RTS), JAM (some 1700s, 3497 and some 3500s RTS and 3800s, YUK (1681, some 1700s, 2600s, 3200s, 3300s, 3400s, 3623, 3700s and 3800s) CAS (some 3700s) FP: (some 3000s, 3700s, 4000s, 4100s and 4200s) ENY (some 3000-3300s, 3900s-4000s)
FLA (3000s-3100s, 3300s)HUD (1700, some 3600s and 4100s)
Any corrections, let me know.
MCIMAN2000
ulmer park has some 3100's-3700's as well
Don't forget Manhattanville with its 3400's & 3600's. I get one almost every day. Scrap them already!!!!!
Go figure: I saw 2807 and 2810 on QM12 and QM24 and 3015 is on the Q53. Look at the 2800s: If they keep running 3000 CNG'S on the Q53 or any local routes, they'll wind up just liike these: junky.
Triboro is going to have a problem in the near future: 74 Street Terminal is not able to run CNG buses (Q19B, Q33, Q45). Diesel buses and Methanol Powered buses are going to storage in Command Yard in Brooklyn. Any plans to make the terminal run CNG buses? Another question: Where are buses 2136-2147 going to go? These buses are only 5 years old, they can't be getting rid of them. I heard that M1-M6 are being converted to diesel. After the conversion, are they returning to Triboro or possibly going to Green Lines? Just curious.
MCIMAN2000
So even with the MCI fleet up to 280 buses, the ratty RTSs will still be on the road? Were all the Orion coaches sent to Queens? New routes are desperately needed on the south shore, it looks like the MTA is missing an opportunity to create new express routes. (I'm also tired of the south shore commuters driving into New Dorp and taking up parking spaces on my block.)
Saw a new item of interest today. While waiting for my x17 home (which turned out to be 4877, a rattle-trap RTS that shuddered mightily when the driver applied the brakes approaching the V-Z)
RTS 8280, with a broken sign, and a placard in the window reading 'M4' out of Manhattanville, had what looked like a 6", gray plastic square, about 1-1.5" thick, on the front of the bus, about where the TA logo would be, if it were there. Any idea what the heck that was?
-Hank
That thing is called Vorad. Vorad was first used on Greyhound buses here in the states. It is a collision prevention system that uses sonar or something. The greyhound buses used to carry a sticker on the rear that let everyone know that the Vorad system will trip your radar scanners if your car has one. Greyhound gave up on the system but MTA NYC Bus has continued to use the system on these buses out of Manhattanville. I don't know how successful the program has been, but my guess is that it is not so good, becuase no other newer buses have it.
Peace
DaShawn
DaShawn is correct. Only a few of MTV buses have the hardware still attached, and as is the case with 8280, the black box was actually painted over in 8280 recent repaint job. On the operators panel is a box that looks like a radar detector with a on/off, volume control and a screen that shows intensity's of close to far. The system however is defunct. A Superindent in traininf center told me that the program was a test and I guess as Dashawn that the test was not succesful/
Does anyone know about a bus manufacturer back in the 1920's called the Yellow Coach Company? Also, does anyone know anything about the NY Omnibus Co, which was an operator?
Yellow Coach was the name GM made buses under until the 1940's when it changed over to using the GM name for it's bus manufacturing business.
RDChilds
NYC Omnibus was a corporate sibling to Fifth Avenue Coach. It operated the majority of the Manhattan bus routes that are now part of the MABSTOA/NYCTA network. NYC Omnibus was created in 1926 by Fifth Ave. Coach, when the latter took control of New York Railways, Manhattan's dominant streetcar operator. In 1935-36 all of NY Railway's line were converted to bus using a large fleet of newly designed Yellow (GM) Coaches.
Routes of NYC Omnibus:
1 - Madison Ave (via Park Ave below 42d St)
2 - Madison Ave
3 - Lexington Ave
4 - Lexington & Lenox Aves
5 - 6th Ave
6 - Broadway
7 - Broadway, Columbus, Lenox
8 - 7th Ave
9 - 7th Ave
10 - 8th Ave/CPW
11 - 9th/Amsterdam
12 - Delancey St
13 8th St Xtown
14 - 14th St
15 - 23d St
16 - 34th St
17- 79th St
18 - 86th St
19 - 96th St
20 - 116th St
21- Houston/Ave C
22 - Pitt/Ridge Sts
TB Triboro Bridge
You can see that most of these routes still operate, in some cases combined with adjacent avenues due to one way street patterns, or under different route numbers.
I've noticed that the Q20A, Q20B, and Q44 have changed it's route somewhat. It's back on its original route southbound only. The stop is located on the corner of 39 Ave and Main St. Is this a temporary or permanent change?
MCIMAN2000
Does anyone know what the status of the proposed revision of the M-10 into 2 routes(revisied M-10 and new M-20)
Thank You
Today i just added 15 RTS bus pictures & 4 bus Orion pictures also i will added "New Flyer's Page tomorrow. More pictures to come and enjoy my page.
Peace Out and RIP to JFK Jr & his wife with her sister.
Meaney
RIP JFK and family..........
I just add pictures New Flyer, 100st Depot, & West Farms Depot. Enjoy my page. www.angelfire.com/nj2/nyctmtabus/index.html or go to Busfacts page by Trevor Logan.
Peace Out
Meaney
With the rapid retirement of the 3000 series RTS's. Does anyone know what the future holds for 3160. Since this bus has had some pricey modifications done I would hope that this bus would not be scrapped but remanufactured in some way and retained for more years of service. Any information would be greatful!
Peace!
DaShawn
That bus RTS #3160 sound like used to be originally Delivered to 100th Street Depot back in the 1983. 100th Street Depot had RTS #3160 to 3175 & 3200 to 3249. What the story with RTS #3160??? Something special with that bus?? OOh i got it it 4-Cylinder TEST BUS. Who have the RTS #3160 now?
Peace Out
Meaney
Ulmer Park has 3160.
MCIMAN2000
I drove 3160 on Wenesday and this bus is still one of my favort bus in Ulmer Park. The bus is a fast as the 9000's. I was able to make up time after I pick up a bus load of student at Betford Ave on the B82. The brakes have a great Retarder on them, the brakes do not even make a sound. I hope they keep it in this good of condiction if they keep it.
On newer intercity buses there are two warning light on the dash.
They are labeled "Do Not Shift" and "Stop Engine".
Anyone know what these mean?
Why would the engine ECU tell the driver to stop the engine?
The shift light is on the six speed Allision transmissions.
While I'm not sure why the "DO NOT SHIFT" message, the "STOP ENGINE" message does come on if the engine is too low on coolant, or oil.
There has been a thread on the SubTalk side about Local 100, workers, management, etc. This employee (of a "private" co.) has a bus customer service story there. Hope it brings a smile to you face !
Mr t__:^)
Buses that are in the storage yard will be scrapped or will they be redesigned like the 7000 and 7500's?
Just thought I mention this in case someone was interested. I talked to someone at Bus Customer Relations and she told me that the 99 edition of the bus guide would be available sometime in August. Of course a while back they told me it would be available in July so will see.
hi;Did!BCR!indicate!what!year?
I was on bus 4935 today on the Q79 and the 1st rear seat behind the back door on right side, the top part of the seat didn't have the cushion. Guess this was why this bus was o/s for a while.
MCIMAN2000
The bus had an accident as soon as it was delivered, maybe first day out.
It's been out on the road for about 3 weeks now. This was the first time that I've rode this bus.
MCIMAN2000
That bus was t-boned by a fire truck out on Union and 249th over the fall. Tore up ma good portion of the left side.
I rode LI Bus 138 today on N20. This was the 1st time that I've ever rode an LI/MSBA bus. I liked the ride, but a few things I thought were bad though:
1. very crowded.
2. talking system installed but every 2 blocks were announced. If an everyday driver/comuter, this can be annoying.
3. Air conditioner was broken.
Compared to Green Lines talking system, there were no mistakes and no announced bus/subway transfers. Thought this could've been said, people always say does this bus transfer to this bus etc etc.
MCIMAN2000
The newer MSBA CNG Orions are "talking buses", the older CNG ones are not. I rode the newer CNG buses and I liked it when the bus stops were announced. It's a big help if you're traveling in Nassau County and you don't know the area.
Got 1 question though about CNG: I've seen buses 100-245, and 270-288. Are there any CNG'S Numbered from 246-269? Haven't seen any to this day.
MCIMAN2000
The missing nummbers are assigned to work equipment.
Add the following buses to US Open wrap list:
330, 341, 353, 357, 372, 380
MCIMAN2000
330, 341, 353, 357, 372 and 380 areS buses.
MCIMAN2000
330, 341, 353, 357, 372 and 380 are QS buses.
MCIMAN2000
A-N-D they have different wraps which makes them a little interesting to catch a look at (like the several Met/Yankee wraps that you need to see both sides to get the point).
Mr t__:^)
First let me publically thank those of you that responed to my question about Orion V brakes last week. My maint. colleague was so pleased that he asks that I make it a more open question about brake preformance on various type of buses. He is particularry interested in talking to anyone who is/has evualated different composition of brake linings.
For the rest of you three items may be of interest to you:
1. Since asbestos was removed from the "ingredients" the service life of brakes is much shorter. Buses that have to stop a lot vs. big trucks are having more of this problem.
2. Bus types like the CNGs are haveing even more of a problem because the "tanks" have added to their weight.
3. At this depot the Orion CNGs go into full retarder off the accelerator (vs. 70%, 30%, etc.). Their ABS system automatically disengages the Retarder in the event of any wheel skid, so we won't have the change the setting this fall.
Finally, please feel free to e-mail me off line if you would prefer. BTW, John would be happy to talk to you via mabell too.
Mr t__:^) ... Queens Surface Corp. - NYC
CNG buses have retarders? That explains the weird noises LI CNG buses make when comming to a stop. The extra weight from the CNG tanks would be a factor in braking performance. From what I understand, I think that buses either have a Hendrickson or a Rockwell suspension. The Rockwell offer four wheel disc brakes as a option; please correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is true, why don't they order CNG Orions and others with them?
Jorge, I sent you a reply hope you got it this time.
BTW, still interested to starting a conversation with anyone who knows some of the history of QSC, i.e. NY&QC Ry, Steinway Omnibus, Manhattan & Queens Ry (became Queensboro Bridge Ry, then absorbed into QS)
Mr t__:^)
Just to let you know we're curently finishing work on a large book on the NY&Q, SL and QBR. It's an update of Vincent Seyfried's 1950 book but will have hundreds of photos and additional text. Also, I have quite a number of beautiful photos of these systems for sale.
That's great news !
BTW, thanks for ID of 50's book by Vincent Seyfried. I read a review somewhere, but couldn't find it again.
Mr t__:^)
I just got a printout of the past year's production right from Novabus in Roswell, NM. I was wondering if anyone could confirm the following information regarding NYCTA, as sometimes even Novabus gets things screwed up.
WR833327 - WR833375 are NYCTA 4902 - 4950
WR833376 went to Laredo, TX
WR833377 - WR833464 are NYCTA 4951 - 5037
WR833465 went to Dallas, TX
WR833466 - WR833502 are NYCTA 5038 - 5074
Autobus Viens, Inc./Laredo, TX/Chapel Hill, NC/Dallas, TX/Gary, IN/Okla. City, OK/Mobile, AL/Saint John, NB/Providence, RI are here..
WR833643 - WR833648 are NYCTA 5075 - 5080
New Jersey Transit 1001, 1026 in this gap
WR833651 - WR833674 are NYCTA 5081 - 5104
At this point the year code letter changes, so the following begin the 1999 model buses according to Novabus.
XR833675 - XR833694 are NYCTA 5105 - 5124
Gary, IN got the two in this gap.
XR833697 - XR833733 are NYCTA 5125 - 5161
XR833734 - XR833735 are NYCTA but what?
XR833735 - XR833823 are NYCTA 5162 - 5249
Thank you for the info;
Please supply the mailing address, for similar written requests
At present, I cannot name the source or address. However, if you wish a complete list, *I* can supply one that will be readable if you have older versions of Paradox. (Newer versions will read too, but you willhave to make a lot of adjustments....)
Can willie james pull off a 30% for his deeply divided members? Will he call a bus and subway strike on 12/15/99? Do the M.T.A. bosses take him seriously? The mayor and city council just voted THEMSELVES 28% hike in salary for part-time jobs. The transit is flush with cash which is seeping through the bricks at Jay st. With all this going on how can T.A. workers fail to win?
No. No. No. Because other city workers aren't getting 30% raises and TA contract negotiations always follow suit.
That 30% demand is just posturing. They'll be lucky to get 10%. As for a strike, if the union's employees want to lose 2 days of pay for every day they miss, it ain't gonna happen. ESPECIALLY if they intend to continue crying poverty.
-Hank
Another nice thing we have going for us is that our low level supervision also does not have a contract; in fact their's expired last year on Feb. 15. And unlike the '81 strike where we went out in the summer to have Ed Koch marching passengers across the Brooklyn Bridge, any plan would not only affect travel in the winter, which not many could walk to work in those conditions but we would cripple the busiest shopping season, affecting the big 8 1/4 sales tax. Im not saying anything more than the threat is BIG , just don't say NO NO NO!
Well, if you want to lose 2 days pay for every day you miss, go ahead...
-Hank
We may lose 2 days pay but at least NYC will be in massive Gridlock. I say if there was a strike it should start Wednesday Dec 22 and mess every one up in time for chrismas or Better then strike have a Slow down with trains BIE at all important Interlocks. That is alot more fun then a strike and disruptive
did you partake in 1980 strike. i did. we lost 22 days pay and mayor koch said hit them in the wallet. this mayor makes koch look like the best mayor we ever had. you will get no sympathy from the public.
You are the exact type of employee the TA likes to get rid of.
-Hank
note that strike took place from 4/1/80-4/11/80. the last time i looked that was considered spring.
Has anyone ridden QV's rebuilt RTS buses? What are they like?
been on bus 7027 on route Q30 recently its like half old rts04 and half new 4900 series
I've ridden on all the rebuilt RTS Buses except 7008, 7030 and 7037. Some ride good, some are really slow. Rode 7007 on Wednesday, good bus, runs fast. 7032 S l o w! 7028 has vandal-resistant seats like 4900s. BTW: Anybody knows if 4900 has been delivered yet?
MCIMAN2000
Where have you been? All 4900-5249 series have been delivered already. They are still delivery the new Orion.
Haven't seen 4900 or 4903 on the road yet. I know they're in.
MCIMAN2000
That is correct, all of the 99 RTS's have been delivered except for 4900 and 4903. It was reported in the UTC roster that 4903 was suppoesed to be an alternative fueled bus for Manhattanville depot, no one from this depot has seen it yet.
PEace
DaShawn
I saw 664 on Q18 on Friday with a farebox. Guess they took it from a now stored Triboro at Command Yard in Brooklyn. I was shocked to see that.
MCIMAN2000
Some new IFUs just came in, we got eleven of them. Mr t__:^)
Saw this Jackie Gleason New Flyer LF on the B35 a few days ago. LF buses look very strange.
What will happen to this bus when all of the 3000 series are retired?
Either a museum or will still be in service. Hope not stored/scrapped.
MCIMAN2000
What's so special about 3160?
-Hank
I thnk 3160 has a certain amount of cylinders in its engine and has a pipe sticking out like the Novas. Never saw it b4, but that's what I heard.
MCIMAN2000
The special thing about 3160 is that this bus was the first to recieve the Series 50 engine. It was retrofitted with the new engine and refabricated engine cradle along with a new exhaust system in order to have a catalytic converter. The transmission was changed to the VR731 and full electronic controls. It is virutally a 8600 series bus. The exhaust pipe on the roof is a little different from the rest of the later production models, and this bus also have aluminum wheels as well.
Peace
DaShawn
In Williamburg Plaza there are about 25 3000s buses park and i took couple pictures today. Also 3700s too.
Peace Out
Meaney
I don't want to post what line, borough, etc. so not to get anyone in trouble.
I was on an MTA bus. It stopped (at the stop I was waiting at) to let a wheelchair passenger get off. The bus was VERY crowded. When the WC got off, there was a lot of room freed up at the rear but the front was overly crowded. I don't think the driver could deal so he told all of us waiting to get on to enter through the back and don't worry about paying.
He was so polite about it! I made everyone smile.
Gee, that was nice. If only we could do that at the supermarket when the checkout lines are long. "We're too busy, so just take your groceries and leave." Or at the bank. "We're too busy, so just take the money you need and leave your note in a pile on that desk." I'm sure the check-out people at the supermarket and the tellers at the bank would have no problem with that.
Here's an idea: remove all the fareboxes and turnstiles. That'll speed up service!
Remember those bus maps from not too long ago (a couple of years back) that had the drawing of a bus and total anarchy in the front while the guy in the suit with the big smile confortably walked out the rear door while adjusting his tie? There was plenty of room in the back.
In fact, that's what the caption said - "There's always room in the back of the bus!!! Please move back."
Would be nice if everybody had enough common sense to use that advice, but I guess that's too much to ask.
As for the bus driver, it's simply a matter of asking those people to move back in order to make room for people getting on.
From A bus opt. point of view it is easy say then done. People on the bus won't move to the back of the bus even if there was a pot of gold back of the bus. Most poeple mind set is that I on the bus, the hell with the other. One example on my B82 I had a standing load by time got to West 7 street heading to Penn Ave. becouse I past my leader who had a student. Two young woman (Of one nationallty) they were the first one on bus and would not move past the front seat even after I Ask them to there face to move back. So don't say it is a matter for the driver asking them to move in Becouse poeple will do as they please.
I would suggest that the driver announce that the bus will not move again until the standees blocking the front of the bus move to the back. The stares the other passengers give should be enough to move them back. If they don't move, then don't move the bus. It's better than having to leave passengers standing at bus stops while there's plenty of room in the rear half of the bus. Unless there's a "penalty," standees will ignore any suggestion to move back.
Bus drivers are not allowed to "stop" the bus if no one moves to the back. Although, most passengers are unaware of this, sometimes the driver will make that announcement with varying degrees of success.
What do I say? I announce that "I don't go home for three hours and I'd be more than happy to stay here (at the bus stop) for a couple of hours, discharge the passengers and then go home." This is also not true, but it usually has people moving.
I tell the people "That I am at work and I get payed of being late. If you are late for work you get docted in your pay, or get mark late for school." This still does not alway work but it help. People will be people if they don't give a dame about other people they will just let them stand out in the extrem heat and in the freezing cold.
It's also rough on you bus operators to deal with that when ridership is at an all time high and bus service is not increased according to the ridership levels, so what we get in response is over crowded buses and alot of ignorant people who make the situation worse than it already is. Bus service is still not at an operational equivilant to say a few years ago when we had less riders and more buses and trains. Now what we have is more riders and less buses and trains. I hope they come up with common sense before it is too late! But then again this is the MTA we are talking about here.
Peace
DaShawn.
Please explain how over 600 more peak buses on the street since July, 1997, major service increases each pick on many, many bus routes and bus depots so overcrowded that buses must park on the street can mean LESS buses for more riders. NYC Transit has done nothing but ADD bus service for the last 2 years, and is still adding. It can be argued that the additions are not enough, but cannot be argued that there is less service and service has been cut.
There is this one bus driver Vince Mashburn and since me and him know each other sorta. Does anyone know his email??
Why do most bus drivers drive in 2nd gear???? If a driver is on a fast paced road doesn't he know that when it is bursting to come out of 2nd it is just about to blow up!
Most drivers of older buses drive in second gear. This is because on older buses the engine is usually underpower. When the bus in fully loaded, you will have a hard time getting up to speed.
In second gear, this prevents the transmission from going above second. This transmits more power to the wheels then the engine is suppling. You know it better as overdrive. This give the bus engine a chance to rev at higher rpm producing more power. The driver must remember to change back to the higher gears or the bus will not go above a certain speed. The newer buses with the electronic transmissions may not need to be acted on like that.
I would like to know on when in August will the New Flyer Over-the-Road coaches will be arriving for express buses on Staten Island. Please post on bustalk.
Thanks,
Timothy
The New Flyer Viking D45S will arrive by the thrid week in August, KEEP A LOOK OUT!
Trevor
With all the additional MCI's the TA is now ordering for Staten Island, is there any pracitical chance that they would want to order some other coaches, such as the New Flyers? It sounds like once the MCI orders will be filled, NY City Bus should have enough express buses for many years.
Even though 100 new MCIs are comming there will still be some old RTS/Orion Express buses in service, I guess with the new New Flyer D45S being tested, they are looking into future purchase and not putting all of there "Bus Eggs in One Basket!" (i.e. MCI)
Trevor
I forgot to add my name to the message below.
Timothy
I read your message before in regards to NYCT bus electronic desination reading list coming on August 1st & I would still like to know if the reading list will be put up by August 1st. Please post on bustalk.
Thanks,
Timothy
I read your message before in regards to NYCT bus electronic desination reading list coming on August 1st & I would still like to know if the reading list will be put up on your webpage by August 1st. Please post on bustalk.
Thanks,
Timothy
Timothy sounds like Michael to me. Can numerous requests to F.D.N.Y. be far behind?
USE YOUR EMAIL for personal conversations. No more of this to: and from: crap.
-Hank
Not everyone has E-mail Hank! So what should a person do then? And another thing, we should all remember that when a post comes up with a To/From not to take it so personal! Some people who post stuff on BT seem to be the only ones with this info and therefore some folks put the To/From but it does not mean that it is exclusively to that person, you can answer the question if you want to, contribute. For example you have knownledge about SI, If I post a message To:Hank, I would want someone else also to contribute if they have info that you may not have or add on to it to make the information more clear.
Peace
DaShawn
Uh-huh. But what if that person decides not to read the message, because it's not publicly addressed? And what happens when someone DOES answer the message, and the original poster, who has no concept of what a public message board is, berates the responder for answering a message that wasn't 'for you'? I've seen this happen much too often in the 10 years I've been on-line.
As for your 'What if they don't have email?' There's no excuse. There's hotmail, Yahoo Mail, several other web-based email services, and many sports teams have a fan e-mail service (such as the Mets). So there is absolutely NO excuse for not having an email address.
-Hank
It is possible. I've been able to get on in the Libraries, and it's on their account, not mine. (I've posted here a few times from there).
So even if a person didn't have an online account at home, he could be going to the library every day and accessing the board, and yet have nowhere to receive e-mail, and also wouldn't even be able to send e-mail since it must come from a screen name. (I've tried it before)
Thank You! Someone who is understanding the concept of technology. Big deal 10 years online, if that is the case you would understand what myself and others are talking about. Like I said before I agree with you, OK! but there are some exceptions not excuses!
PEace
DaShawn
I've also done this form the library, along with Sears via their WebTV Demo. I've also had no problem using hotmail to check my POP email. Bottom line? NO EXCUSES for not having an email address if you have internet access at all.
-Hank
Ladies and Gentlemen,,
This was pretty much geared to a certain group of
problem people----Timothy,Jeremy,Michael and
Sarand,,,all the same persons.
I get alot of mail,,,pretty much every other weekfor
destination sign readings and the like,,and I give
the same answers,,from this group.
I gave Michael and Sarand ,about 25 pages of Staten
Island Readings,,,He writes back to me,,that he lost
it,and can I send it again,,,!!!!!!!!!!!!
The writing style is identical,,run on
sentences,etc.
I am just suggesting something,,to all of you
serious Bus and subway fans,,,be careful giving this
material to this lot of fellow(s)
steve
I agree with Steve
You know, people are still going to do it. I feel bad because most of the time, the questions are directed towards me. So i feel as if I caused all of the mass confusion. I'd wish it would stop too. SO let's end all the going back and forth with the e-mail for person stuff!
AND
For those that want to ask me questions, PERSONALLY, here is my e-mail
surface__transit@hotmail.com
Thank You
Trevor
AMEN!
Peace
DaShawn
If you can access this site from the library there should be no reason why you can't access hotmail/yahoo/etc. You don't need a home account or an ISP of your own. If you can read this message YOU CAN HAVE PRIVATE EMAIL!
Words of wisdom ----Timothy,Jeremy,Michael,and Sarand are all the same persons
---Be careful giving this people information
Steve
FDNY
I agree with Hank,enought with the to: ---garbage
and Trevor ,,please try to correct Michael,Jeremy,Timothy and Sarand
I am very flattered to "said" people choose to ask me question, BUT I would apreciate it if you could E-mail me with the personal questions if you feel that you don't want anybody else to answer them!
My e-mail address is
surface__transit@hotmail.com (Bookmark it if you like)
Thank You
Trevor
Thank you HANK and FDNY for warning me in advance about this TIMOTHY, etc. person.
Trevor
There was a recent post that seemed to indicate that LI Bus didn't have a restriction on the number of standees on it's Orion CNG fleet.
I seen several CNGs & even called a friend at LI Bus. I think they still have the same eleven standee limit. Since the DOT "privates" also have this restriction it may just be the TA that packs them in & hopes the bus will stop.
Mr t__:^)
I totally agree with the last few posts about the To/From. If eveyone who has an E-mail connection should absolutely use that connection for personally messages. But what about those few individuals who only have net access and no e-mail connection, what should they do? Just a thought!
Peace!
DaShawn
Most of the postings that are done on a "To _____" basis can usually just as easily be posted as a general inquiry to all BusTalk users. I don't think that a rule which prohibits personal messages between two people would prevent valid questions and inquiries from being raised. Moreover, the "To _____" technique jams up the subject line, which should be reserved solely for a brief description of the subject of the message. This will make it easier for all BusTalk readers to determine if they want to read a message or not.
Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, and any number of other web-based email services, that's what they do.
-Hank
If they have only Net access and no-email, they can always get a free e-mail address at Hotmail, Yahoo, Excite, or any of those types of services.
I agree with steve,the majority of the e-mail accounts are free,so there is no excuse whatsoever.
I agree with your statements, but also take into consideration the people who do not have home computers and use their office machines, the free e-mail serivces are not always accessable due to protection systems on the servers at the work place to prevent viruses, etc. I'm writing you guys from work right now and I had to wait about 1 hour to get this site due to the network. The deal is that I understand the situation more now than I did a few days ago and if there are any personally questions they should be posted via personal e-mail and if no e-mail is avaiable make the question one that everyone can answer.
Peace
DaShawn
It doesn't matter. Your basic e-mail service is basic HTML, using forms, it doesn't even need a secure server. If your browser can't load forms, you wouldn't be here, would you? There are so many web based e-mail suppliers that there's no way they can all be banned. If they ban all but a handful of sites, then I doubt they would put BusTalk on the allow list. Basically, there is no reason to post personal messages on BusTalk except for change of e-mail messages. But even so, with free forwarding, I don't see any reason why that should be done either.
Maybe we should begin to delete "directed" conversation on BusTalk :-)
David,
I don't normally agree with censoring postings, but I believe that you may have the answer to the problem - deleting the "to/from" crap.
Thanks for all that you do on this site.
Chip
Makes sense to me!
Peace
DaShawn
Does anybody have a Manhattan Bus Map from 1985? Please Post.
Check the maps section. I'm scanning my collection slowly, and it's difficult going, as I don't want to damage my maps. I have bus and subway maps dating to the 50s, and even some from the 30's, so be paitient, and your time will come. I intend to get them all scanned and posted, eventually.
-Hank
I saw 3983 today on Q88 route at Queens Center Mall. Somebody who passed the depot probably thought that this bus was scrap because they saw it with no numbers on the front and sides. It now has MaBSTOA numbers on sides and front. Not sure about the rear though. Anyway, IT'S BACK!
MCIMAN2000
Which model Orion did Command just purchase? VI? Since they have new busses, I was wondering if they're going to scrap anything. Hopefully it's their crappy old 1985 GMC RTS busses as opposed to the MCI Classic express busses. I like soft seats.
No those are Orion V/CNG Suburbans! They have scrapped some of the 1985 RTS not all though, I've seen some 1985 RTS buses still kicking around!
Trevor
Webmaster/Ringmaster
TransiTALK - http://geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7650
OK, what about the MCI models? They're not handicap accessible, but they're great busses. I love the luggage racks. There are still plenty of old RTSs on the B100 route.
Talks are going around about NYCDOT either keep replacing buses with Orion V/CNGs or they are even looking at a MCI 102D3 CNG in which that is what NJ Transit just received! We just don't know until it happens, I like the MCI Classic TDS also, its a very reliable and cute bus!
Trevor
So do I, the MCI is an excellent bus, but one question.
The Classic TDS is the version with Transverse mounted engines, we do not have any of those or do we?
PEace
DaShawn
The TDS is just a overall title for the Classic (i.e. suburbans and transit versions), just that no one pays it any attention, if i'm naming a bus, I giving the full model name not jsut a shorthand or nickname!
Trevor
Thanks Trevor! I appreciate the response. Is there any plans to have the current MCI Classic TDS's remaned or rebuilt?
Peace
DaShawn
TDS comes from NovaBUS when they started making the Classic with a T-Drive(I thought they always had it, I might be wrong though). Probably one of those marketing things to show that it's part of the fam-RTS, LFS, Classic TDS
Peace,
Big D
The next order of Orion Vs are for local service, i.e. hard seats. The GM/TMC RTS aren't holding up as well as the MCIs, so some of the RTS will go before they (DOT) starts retiring the MCI Classics.
Mr t__:^)
Are we talking about the GMC RTS's or the TMC's which were ordered in 1993/94?
Thanks & Peace
DaShawn
At this depot we're keeping all the TMCs from '93, for now, but the GMC/RTS -03, -04 & -06 are another matter.
Mr t__:^)
We'll see how NJ Transit holds up with the 102D3. I'm surprised that the FDNY will allow the bus into the city. They have disallowed the NYC bus operators from purchasing buses with underfloor tanks.
Let's keep our fingers crossed. I saw the bus at ADDA and it looked great.
Interesting! Since when does the FDNY determine if a bus with underflood tanks can be allowed to come into NYC?
Thanks in advance
Peace
DaShawn
These buses are the bomb they have new back door features and Air-assisted doors and More Features in the driver area
could you extrapolate more on these new features?
It'd be nice if you could tell us, in plain english, what these fancy features are...
-Hank
In slang term he means "The Bomb" that these buses are real good, The doors have a totally redesign motor in them, also even though the same feature of the drivers area show up on 9350-9699 and 4900-5249, he is refering to the "openess" of the area, the smaller Speedometer gauge (looks more like the other, not so huge), the New ODK on the Luminator MINI MAX 3000 Signs, the Fire Supression System, and a more ergonomically designed control panel (next to the driver).
I hope this clears up any mis-understanding of Mr.J9474's slang!
Trevor Logan
Ringmaster/Webmaster
TransiTALK
See SubTalk 20:16:12 Tuesday for info on the above.
On 42nd and 8th this afternoon, WestSide bus 5179:
"COASTAL STORM"
"EMERGENCY ROUTE"
I think someone saw one last week
buses 6250- 6349 a total of 100 will be assigned to yukon while castleton receives 6142 -6249 a total of 108. this is a shift of 6 buses in favor of yukon over original assignment.
If anyone is interested, I spotted 7513 on a flatbed truck outside Ulmer Park Depot this afternoon around 3:00. It looked like it was being taken away. If anyone knows what the story is with that bus, let me know please.
thanks
Look like RTS #7513 (ex #2665) heading to repair.
Has the Brooklyn System Pick been posted as yet and have any changes been made?
The pick won't be posted untill 8/9/99. I hear two different things about the pick anf Ulmer Park. (1) Ulmer Park did not lost any lines and gained work on some of the local and express lines. (2) Ulmer Park is going the lose the X27 back to JG Dopot. I do not beleave anything until the new pick is posted and I see the new prints.
Flatbus among the changes i under stand the B46 is getting a increase on all three scheduals Weekdays 7, Sat 5, Sun 4, The 49 is also getting an increase finnally I think 9 runs on Week, 7 Sat, 5 Sun.
Let me know please
Good Day
I need the latest readings ,,especially the
X13
X14
M14
M10
M20
Q20A
Q20B
Q44Ltd
and anything else new ,for 1999
Your help is needed,if Trevor wants,,he can post my material ,once it is updated
Steve
FDNY 84
Greetings
I need your help,, I am getting a new listing of
Bus Destination Signs,TOTALLY UPDATED to 1999/2000.
I need to use a Scanner, I can not type 55 pages of
Signs,,Issues include neatness and Size of the
document
The problem is,I have the WebTV,a very very simple
computer system ,pretty much ,E-Mail and the
Internet accessablility !!
I will come to you ,,and hopefully ,,when can get it
done correctly ,to post on Bus Talk
Steve
FDNY84
Maybe a local copy place like Kinko's or Office Max can scan it to a diskette for you.
If you need FDNY or NYPD Radio Stuff ,let me know,I will help you out
Steve
FDNY84
I spotted a New Flyer CNG low floor bus in MTA livery at Atlantic Diesel in Holbrook. I couldn't make out the number because I was across the street and those bus numbers are so tiny. Very handsome looking; she gives new meaning to the term "low rider".
In the last two days I saw two different New Flyers. #826 on the B68 on Tuesday and #829 on the B63 on Wenesday.
I could only make out the number eight on that New Flyer I saw; maybe it was one of the two you mentioned.
spotted bus 825 on the b51 by city hall while driving the x15 friday evening. this bus is definitely the bomb but i noted one problem:the left side rear radiator compartment is not fully covered and all papers from the road were becoming attached to the bus making for an ugly sight.mta may have to replace this comp door.
I rode 825 on Friday. It is an excellent bus. Great pickup and also it talks! I did notice the debris on the radiator grid, the TA has to do something about that. Otherwise I love this bus! The interior is also very roomy and to me a better layout than the NovaBus LFS. The only complaint was the AC was not so good! Probably needed a Freon Recharge.
Peace
DaShawn
you say it talks. what does it say?. if its brand new it shouldnt need ac recharge. i believe they are using r22 now. freon is bad for the environment.they stopped using it years ago and were using r134a for awhile.
R-22 IS Freon, it's R-134a that's an HCFC and supposedly doesn't deplete the Stratospheric Ozone Layer. AFAIK, the TA still uses R-22 because of the cost to upgrade. CFCs cause no problems if they don't actually leak into the atmosphere.
im going to check this out when i return from my swing. pardon my lack if chemical knowledge. it was not my best subject in college.
The bus talking might have been the new Speek Easy PA System. The Drive Has to program the system with the out side massage. The massage play three time every time the front door is open.. This New PA system is on all new busses that are being delivied since mid 1998. Also all busses that are being giving that 3 year upgrades are getting them put in. The 7500 in Flatbush are goning though there three year upgrade now are getting them now.
i drove 1985 bus 3834. this bus had an upgrade. the speakeasy was installed but as is the case at yukon it didnt work.the main reason you hardly hear messages is the lack of fellow operators using working speakeasys.
Thanks for the clarifaction. I thought that was the case. By the way when the front doors open the voice says " This is the B51 to City Hall/ Park Row".
Peace
DaShawn
Within the last few days, I've been on some adventures around Queens. 1st I saw 3060 with red paint on it but no # on right side. Then I saw Jamaica Bus 3701 (Formely Triboro Coach M3)on Q110 today with new red-brown scheme on the bus and red-gray seats inside. Then I saw Jamaica Bus 3852 which I believe used to be Green Bus 1187. 3850-1185
3851-1186
3852-1187
3853-1188
3854-1189
I noticed the license plates and rear lights were the same as they were at Green Lines. Then I saw Green Bus 5503 on Q41 with orange destination sign. After 5503 I saw 1855 on Q59. Got on it, ran like junk. Seats were marked up pretty bad. Took pics of a lot of buses but my camera got messed up. After film was finished, it wouldn't wind. Hope they come out. Let you know.
MCIMAN2000
Any upcoming changes in service for the fall? I wonder if thew B49 will have limited service? Any extensions of routes or so forth........
B14M
I have been posting everything
---from the agendas
The only things happening soon willbe the M10 and M20 and the X13
Maybe some items from the Bklyn SW Study,,that is it ,for now ,probably till after the 1st of the Year
Steve
FDNY84
Does this SW Bklyn study include the B36 to KP? Could you elborate more? Or is it just the B7 extension to CI Ave? Thanks....
B14M
B1 and B64 Swap Terminals
New B86---old B1 to Shore Rd and 86 st
B68 to Stillwell Av
B70 rerouting,,already working now
B36 to Kings Plaza
S53 terminal change-already working now
I believe the B7 extension to Coney Island Avenue is going in next pick.
It was part of a recent Agenda Study ,2 months ago
How will the new B1, B64 and B86 work? Where will the switch between the 64 and 1 be? If there's an 86 replacing the 1, why is a 1 needed? And what terminal changes are these for the S53 and B70?
s53 and S79 already working
ELiminate the B1 ,,,replace with a B86
B86 to Run from Manhattan Beach to Shore Rd/86
B64 from Stillwell to 71 St/Shore Road
If you notice,,swaps will be at 86 st at 13 and 14 Av
Why eliminate the B1? Just call the B86 the B1.
The idea was that the route would be called B86 because its primary street of operation (at least on its western half) would be 86th Street. The other part of the trade would remain designated as B64.
David
All I can say is I'm glad I don't ride buses in Brooklyn anymore.
I wonder how the B-36 will turn around at Kings Plaza. It will be a good idea to route Kings Plaza buses from Nostrand Ave/Ave Z via Nostrand Ave,Ave Y,Knapp Street,Gerritsen Ave,Ave U,Flatbush Ave,Ave V turnaround. Return via Flatbush Ave,Ave S,E. 36th St,Ave U,Gerritsen Ave,Knapp St,Ave Y,Nostrand Ave and via current route.
Since it's not going to happen, at least for a long while, there's not much use in speculating. However, given the difficulties in getting buses from Avenue U onto and off of Flatbush Avenue at Kings Plaza, running as far as Mill Avenue was discussed. B3 buses were turned at Mill Avenue at one point.
David
[I wonder how the B-36 will turn around at Kings Plaza. It will be a good idea to route Kings Plaza buses from Nostrand Ave/Ave Z via Nostrand Ave,Ave Y,Knapp Street,Gerritsen Ave,Ave U,Flatbush Ave,Ave V turnaround. Return via Flatbush Ave,Ave S,E. 36th St,Ave U,Gerritsen Ave,Knapp St,Ave Y,Nostrand Ave and via current route.]
The discussed was via Flatbush and U turn at Avenue V
Steve
This is a recent topic,not part of the orig.Bklyn SW Study
Steve
FDNY84
Where is the X13 supposed to run?
The X13 will be the Downtown Only portion of the X14 route
via Church st to Worth ,,and ret via Bwy SB
The X14 will be a Midtown route via Water St---ref Agenda July 1999
Steve
Water st ,,Frankfort St,,FDR,23 street
Just happened to be across the street from Atlantic Diesel again this morning and I saw a RTS bus in a curious burgundy/charcoal brown livery. The bus has no external markings, so I would assume that this bus is privately owned. It is clearly a former NYCT RTS; the telltale lights on both sides of the destination sign are present. It has been modified with two roof mounted a/c units and a generator was installed behind the right front wheel. Someone obviously turned it into a mobile home.
Saw this bus on Queens Blvd this afternoon. It was in storage somewhere but now has returned. The back looked pretty bad. It was shrink-wrapped but now since they took it off, most of the red paint that was on the bus before the shrink-wrap is now 75% gone. Needs a paintjob bad. 769 is a little better. It went through same process as 777 but 769 has more red paint on the back. 2 numbers were on both buses.
MCIMAN2000
Speaking of Triboro Coach, I spotted an MCI Classic from them, with a rear door. Never seen a Classic with a rear door, and it looked very odd.
-Hank
Some of Green Bus Lines' MCI Classics have rear doors and are used for transit rather than express service. I didn't realize Triboro had one with a rear door.
So does Jamaica bus, they have one or two max with a rear door as well.
Peace
DaShawn
Jamaica has 608 with rear doors.
Green has buses 705-716
HANK, did you happen to spot the number of the MCI?
MCIMAN2000
Does Jamaica still have 608 and if I remember correctly ,they had 2 with the rear door ;it was either 609 or 607 .
607 has no back door. They still have 608 as far as I know. I don't ever recall a 609 at Jamaica.
MCIMAN2000
Nope, went by me too fast, I didn't get much of a chance to look.
-Hank
This morning, as I drove east on Sunrise Highway (NY 27) from the Nassau-Suffolk line to West Islip, I spotted a new Green Line Orion going eastbound (#55XX - don't remember the last two digits). Anyone know why a Green Bus would be travelling out to Suffolk. It was empty of passengers. Maybe Green Lines has a contract out in Suffolk for certain mechanical work? The bus continued east after I exited Sunrise Highway in West Islip - so I don't know how far it continued.
It could have been going to Atlantic Diesel in Holbrook. It would have continued east past West Islip, exited at Lincoln or Johnson, turned left, headed north to Vet's Highway (Rte 454) made another left and then contiunued back northwesterly until turning into AD
Sometimes I see GL buses out here too. I saw a GL Orion going east on Sunrise Highway one morning. It was probably going to the paint shop on Route 112 in Coram. All the private Queens carriers send their buses there for painting.
Anybody know the name of the paint shop on Rte 112. I'm out there occasionally and both my son and daughter have bought used cars from dealers on the "strip". Also Metropolis Diner (across from the Dodge dealer) has great food and "Early Bird" dinner specials before 6 - just like Fla.
All the Queens privates do NOT send their buses out to Suffolk County to have them painted. Queens Surface does all its painting in-house. And there was a paint booth at the old facility too (not just in our new depot).
Peter
Okay, okay. So I stand corrected! Sheesh.
Via Subway, LI bus, & City of Long Beach bus ... check it out on SubTalk & let me know what you think !
Why should you attend ... what else are you going to do on a warm summers night ?
Mr t__:^)
Did the governor sign local 100's pension bills last week? One was for the 25/55 opt out and the other was for tier 2 members.